Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 50 (9179 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: Jorge Parker
Post Volume: Total: 918,217 Year: 5,474/9,624 Month: 499/323 Week: 139/204 Day: 9/4 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Israel Declares War For The First Time Since 1973.
Phat
Member
Posts: 18455
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 76 of 381 (913243)
10-19-2023 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Tanypteryx
10-18-2023 7:56 PM


Re: War Update from BBC
Likely more risk of expanding to global conflict.
Tany writes:
As always, I question your grasp of reality.
Given that none of you are believers, I won't even bring up the Biblical Prophecy. PaulK will challenge it all, anyway.
One thing is certain. Unlike Ukraine, Israel has nukes and in the event they start losing badly, they will not hesitate to use them. The US can't control that!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-18-2023 7:56 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-19-2023 12:36 AM Phat has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 77 of 381 (913244)
10-19-2023 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Phat
10-19-2023 12:23 AM


Re: War Update from BBC
One thing is certain. Unlike Ukraine, Israel has nukes and in the event they start losing badly, they will not hesitate to use them.
Really? They're going to nuke Gaza?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Phat, posted 10-19-2023 12:23 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Phat, posted 10-19-2023 5:11 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18455
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


(1)
Message 78 of 381 (913250)
10-19-2023 5:11 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Tanypteryx
10-19-2023 12:36 AM


Re: War Update from BBC
Really? They're going to nuke Gaza?
I highly doubt that!
If the UN ordered them to stop fighting it would be up to them...not the UN.
If the UN ordered them to split the land of Israel down the middle with Palestine, they would have a right to say no as long as Hamas exists. Israel does not trust a lot of outsiders.
BBC:
UPDATE:
  • UK PM Rishi Sunak has arrived in Israel - he's holding talks with Israeli leaders and is expected to visit other countries in the region
  • On arrival, he condemns the "horrific act of terrorism" by Hamas on 7 October, and says the UK stands with Israel
  • Israel's military says it hit hundreds of sites in Gaza over the past 24 hours, targeting "Hamas infrastructure"
  • Gaza remains under siege, with Israel blocking cross-border supplies of water, electricity, and fuel
  • But the US and Egypt say lorries providing aid should start crossing from Egypt into Gaza on Friday
  • Joe Biden is back in the US - his short visit to Israel was overshadowed by a blast at a Gaza hospital, which local officials say killed 471 people - a figure contested by Israel.
  • Palestinian authorities say an Israeli air strike was to blame - but Israel insists the blast was caused by a misfired rocket from Gaza...
  • From what I hear, mass protests continue in other countries. Many are anti-Israel.
    Even though they were attacked this time, Israel must walk on eggshells to defend their integrity. In my opinion, they have every right to eliminate Hamas, but how does one go about seperating Hamas terrorist members from ordinary Palestinians?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 77 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-19-2023 12:36 AM Tanypteryx has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 79 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-19-2023 10:59 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Tanypteryx
    Inactive Member


    Message 79 of 381 (913253)
    10-19-2023 10:59 AM
    Reply to: Message 78 by Phat
    10-19-2023 5:11 AM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    In my opinion, they have every right to eliminate Hamas, but how does one go about seperating Hamas terrorist members from ordinary Palestinians?
    Yep, terrorists are cowards and every single time they use innocent populations as shields. The decades that the Palestinians have not had any control of of the supply of food, water, electricity and medicine and where they have no citizenship rights, no vote...will make it exceedingly difficult to resolve. What can resolve 3 generations of oppression?

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
    What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
    One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
    If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
    The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 78 by Phat, posted 10-19-2023 5:11 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 80 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-19-2023 3:35 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

      
    Tanypteryx
    Inactive Member


    (1)
    Message 80 of 381 (913255)
    10-19-2023 3:35 PM
    Reply to: Message 79 by Tanypteryx
    10-19-2023 10:59 AM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    I just saw a comment on a news channel sum things up..."It's going to get worse before it gets really worse!"

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
    What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
    One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
    If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
    The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 79 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-19-2023 10:59 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 81 by Theodoric, posted 10-19-2023 4:01 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied
     Message 83 by GDR, posted 10-21-2023 2:39 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

      
    Theodoric
    Member
    Posts: 9364
    From: Northwest, WI, USA
    Joined: 08-15-2005
    Member Rating: 2.6


    (1)
    Message 81 of 381 (913256)
    10-19-2023 4:01 PM
    Reply to: Message 80 by Tanypteryx
    10-19-2023 3:35 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    I was listening on the radio. I believe that was Admiral James Stavridis.
    James G. Stavridis - Wikipedia

    What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

    Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

    "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

    If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 80 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-19-2023 3:35 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 82 by Phat, posted 10-20-2023 1:55 PM Theodoric has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18455
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 82 of 381 (913267)
    10-20-2023 1:55 PM
    Reply to: Message 81 by Theodoric
    10-19-2023 4:01 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    Admiral Stadridis wrote a book that I am now listening to on Audible.
    Wiki:
    The Leader's Bookshelf, published in 2017, describes the top 50 books that, according to Stavridis, inspire better leadership.
    When he was the military commander of NATO he faced a challenge with NATO. The US had a top down approach to military leadership but NATO had more of a consensus style of leadership...which is one reason they did not support the US-led mission.
    Anyway, here is todays update from the BBC:
    BBC:
    SUMMARY:
  • Israeli media say two US hostages who were held by Hamas have been released
    They were among the 200 hostages taken to Gaza by Hamas during the attacks on 7 October.
  • Earlier Israel's military said more than 20 children under 18 were among the hostages
    They also said the majority of those being held were still alive
  • UN chief António Guterres has visited the Rafah border crossing with Egypt, and said he expected the first shipment of aid to enter Gaza in "the next day or so"
  • Palestinian officials say more than 4,000 people have been killed in Gaza since Hamas attacked Israel on 7 October, killing more than 1,400 people
  • I also read about the difference between the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Hamas.
    the former group is even more extreme than Hamas, though part of the likely reason is that Hamas is acting as a governing authority.
    Palestine is infested with terrorists, though a case could be made that they are Freedom Fighters. The problem with that name connected with the ideology is that freedom fighters would want to be free from Israel...not to eliminate it.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 81 by Theodoric, posted 10-19-2023 4:01 PM Theodoric has not replied

      
    GDR
    Member
    Posts: 6206
    From: Sidney, BC, Canada
    Joined: 05-22-2005


    Message 83 of 381 (913285)
    10-21-2023 2:39 PM
    Reply to: Message 80 by Tanypteryx
    10-19-2023 3:35 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    Tanypteryx writes:
    I just saw a comment on a news channel sum things up..."It's going to get worse before it gets really worse!"
    It is hard to be optimistic. No one knows the depth of evil in the human heart.

    He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

    Micah 6:8


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 80 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-19-2023 3:35 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 84 by AZPaul3, posted 10-21-2023 3:35 PM GDR has not replied

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 8613
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.4


    (2)
    Message 84 of 381 (913286)
    10-21-2023 3:35 PM
    Reply to: Message 83 by GDR
    10-21-2023 2:39 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    It is hard to be optimistic.
    Indeed it is.
    In the months before the Russo-inspired Hamas attacks there was the usual death toll of 20+- Palestinians killed in Gaza and West Bank each month. These deaths each month every month for decades are in the background and don't count. This latest action will kill many more in a shorter time. Thousands of people will die. Ultimately, though, as the last 60 years of history have shown, things will settle down and get back to the usual attrition of 20+- Palestinians each month.
    Despite what happens nothing will change for the Palestinian people. Israel's long-term ethnic cleansing process will continue.

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 83 by GDR, posted 10-21-2023 2:39 PM GDR has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 85 by Phat, posted 10-21-2023 3:54 PM AZPaul3 has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18455
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 85 of 381 (913289)
    10-21-2023 3:54 PM
    Reply to: Message 84 by AZPaul3
    10-21-2023 3:35 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    Why can't the Palestinians simply move? They wont get their old home back. Nor will the Indians ever get Arizona back..nor Mexico.
    Oh, that's right. Their so-called Muslim Brothers won't let them live in their countries either.
    I predict Putin's little special operation in Palestine will explode into attacks on the United States. Care to wager?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 84 by AZPaul3, posted 10-21-2023 3:35 PM AZPaul3 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 86 by AZPaul3, posted 10-21-2023 4:20 PM Phat has replied
     Message 87 by nwr, posted 10-21-2023 5:40 PM Phat has replied

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 8613
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.4


    (1)
    Message 86 of 381 (913290)
    10-21-2023 4:20 PM
    Reply to: Message 85 by Phat
    10-21-2023 3:54 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    Why can't the Palestinians simply move?
    Have you asked them why? Have you ever read anything from the Palestinians?
    Maybe it's because, after urbanization, their camel's don't work anymore.
    "wHy cAn't ThE pAlesTinIaNs siMpLy MoVe?"
    You insensitive hypocritical SOB. Why don't you give up your home and go beg scraps? Shades of jar discussions.

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 85 by Phat, posted 10-21-2023 3:54 PM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 89 by Phat, posted 10-22-2023 4:15 AM AZPaul3 has replied

      
    nwr
    Member
    Posts: 6444
    From: Geneva, Illinois
    Joined: 08-08-2005
    Member Rating: 5.0


    (2)
    Message 87 of 381 (913292)
    10-21-2023 5:40 PM
    Reply to: Message 85 by Phat
    10-21-2023 3:54 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    Phat in Message 85 writes:
    Why can't the Palestinians simply move?
    Why can't Phat simply move, and allow indigenous Ameticans to have his apartment?
    When you ask the question in the abstract, it seems like there's a simple solution. But when you put yourself in the same position, it does not look as simple.

    Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 85 by Phat, posted 10-21-2023 3:54 PM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 88 by Phat, posted 10-22-2023 4:11 AM nwr has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18455
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 88 of 381 (913293)
    10-22-2023 4:11 AM
    Reply to: Message 87 by nwr
    10-21-2023 5:40 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    It is no simpler for the Israelis to move. I realize the intrinsic value of human life---for all people. What AZLogic calls revisionist B.S. is an insult from a man who lacks the wisdom to make such a judgement. Religion and Spiritual Legend are every bit as important to some people as Physics and Science is to AZPaul3. I would ask him if he were to mind letting go of that knowledge and simply walking away from it. As he answers that question, perhaps he can understand why religion will never die for some people.
    The Israelis will never budge an inch. Perhaps the same is true for the Palestinians.
    nwr writes:
    When you ask the question in the abstract, it seems like there's a simple solution. But when you put yourself in the same position, it does not look as simple.
    Thats for sure.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 87 by nwr, posted 10-21-2023 5:40 PM nwr has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 90 by nwr, posted 10-22-2023 10:46 AM Phat has not replied
     Message 91 by AZPaul3, posted 10-22-2023 12:13 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18455
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 89 of 381 (913294)
    10-22-2023 4:15 AM
    Reply to: Message 86 by AZPaul3
    10-21-2023 4:20 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    AZSolutions writes:
    Why don't you give up your home and go beg scraps?
    For likely the same reason that you won't. There is no moral high ground here though progressives often side with the weaker party in any two-sided debate.
    What likely irks you is that your party will never have the authority to make anyone or any culture make peace and allow compromise.
    Nor will Putin and his 4000 nukes. Nor will China and its billion people.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 86 by AZPaul3, posted 10-21-2023 4:20 PM AZPaul3 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 92 by AZPaul3, posted 10-23-2023 5:38 AM Phat has not replied
     Message 93 by Theodoric, posted 10-23-2023 8:35 AM Phat has not replied

      
    nwr
    Member
    Posts: 6444
    From: Geneva, Illinois
    Joined: 08-08-2005
    Member Rating: 5.0


    Message 90 of 381 (913296)
    10-22-2023 10:46 AM
    Reply to: Message 88 by Phat
    10-22-2023 4:11 AM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    Phat in Message 88 writes:
    It is no simpler for the Israelis to move.
    Agreed. That's why there is no easy solution.

    Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 88 by Phat, posted 10-22-2023 4:11 AM Phat has not replied

      
    Newer Topic | Older Topic
    Jump to:


    Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

    ™ Version 4.2
    Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024