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Author Topic:   Israel Declares War For The First Time Since 1973.
Phat
Member
Posts: 18455
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 46 of 381 (913193)
10-16-2023 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by xongsmith
10-16-2023 2:22 AM


Re: It All Started With the Nakba
Sorry if I went off-topic slightly adding to your obituary, but I wanted to share a picture of the 6-year-old boy killed in the hate crime. Six-year-old Wadea Al-Fayoume celebrated his birthday a few weeks ago. His innocence tugged at my heart and I recoiled that he was a victim of a senseless hate crime.
Landlord charged with hate crimes after Muslim boy killed in Illinois - BBC News
I believe that Israel, though expected to retaliate, is could be potentially committing a hate crime just as Hamas did. The entity that we are all fighting in this world today is hate itself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by xongsmith, posted 10-16-2023 2:22 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18455
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 47 of 381 (913195)
10-16-2023 3:22 PM


War Update from BBC
Apparently, Vladimir Putin had a phone call to Benjamin Netanyahu according to the Kremlin.
BBC:
n a statement, the Kremlin said the Russian president expressed his condolences to the families of Israelis killed in the recent attacks by Hamas and "stressed strong opposition to, and condemnation of, any actions whose victims are civilians, including women and children".
How ironic! Putin's forces in Ukraine have killed and wounded a large amount of civilians.
BBC:
Summary:10/16/23--
  • Hamas's military wing says it has fired a "barrage of rockets" at Jerusalem and Tel Aviv - with sirens sending lawmakers to bomb shelters
  • UN aid chief Martin Griffiths says Gaza's health system and hospitals are "collapsing before our eyes" without water, fuel and medical supplies
  • The Rafah crossing from Egypt into Gaza has been hit by an air strike - the extent of the damage is unclear
  • Israel's military has updated the number of people it believes are being held hostage in Gaza - up from 155 to 199
  • Rishi Sunak says at least six British people were among those killed by the initial Hamas attack, and 10 remain missing
  • The BBC has learned two of the missing British citizens are teenage sisters from a kibbutz
  • In total, more than 2,700 people in Gaza have been killed in retaliatory strikes
    by Israel

  • I take no joy in the possibility of World War III. I am not some apocalyptic whacko awaiting the final battle. I have decidedly embraced peace and life.
    Taiwan is a bit nervous also. Imagine a third front opening there...while our navy is busy backing Israel!
    I think that the US military-industrial complex is feeding the wars. Is this true?

    Replies to this message:
     Message 48 by AZPaul3, posted 10-16-2023 5:54 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 49 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-16-2023 7:01 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 8613
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.4


    Message 48 of 381 (913196)
    10-16-2023 5:54 PM
    Reply to: Message 47 by Phat
    10-16-2023 3:22 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    Taiwan is a bit nervous also. Imagine a third front opening there...while our navy is busy backing Israel!
    The US navy backing Israel involves 2 aircraft carriers, the Ford and the Eisenhower. That leaves us only 9 more. Your concerns are childish.
    I think that the US military-industrial complex is feeding the wars. Is this true?
    I don't think the world's arms makers are upset by the Ukraine action. The terrain is wonderful for testing, in live action, the latest conventional weapons, especially the latest drone tech. Gaza, not so much. Too constricted in area and not conducive to the kinds of tests the new technology seeks. Too many damn civilians.
    But, there are wars on and manufactured weapons are quite popular with modern militaries and insurgent movements. The arms makers will not complain about the additional sales.

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 47 by Phat, posted 10-16-2023 3:22 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Tanypteryx
    Inactive Member


    Message 49 of 381 (913199)
    10-16-2023 7:01 PM
    Reply to: Message 47 by Phat
    10-16-2023 3:22 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    Phat in Message 47 writes:
    Taiwan is a bit nervous also. Imagine a third front opening there...while our navy is busy backing Israel!
    ‚Äč
    I think that the US military-industrial complex is feeding the wars. Is this true?
    Well, the U.S. spends more per year on our military than all the rest of the world combined, several times over, the last I heard. Hypothetically we should be able to fight and win any conventional (non-nuclear) world war.

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
    What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
    One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
    If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
    The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 47 by Phat, posted 10-16-2023 3:22 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 50 by AZPaul3, posted 10-16-2023 10:23 PM Tanypteryx has replied

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 8613
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.4


    Message 50 of 381 (913201)
    10-16-2023 10:23 PM
    Reply to: Message 49 by Tanypteryx
    10-16-2023 7:01 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    Hypothetically we should be able to fight and win any conventional (non-nuclear) world war.
    If supply were the only key then yeah we win. But these last 60 years has taught us that it's not the numbers of bombs but what you do with them that matters. The Ukrainians taught that to the Russians. The USofA has been through that mill many times but it appears we're too stupid to learn.
    We're going to get sucked into another wasp nest, aren't we?

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 49 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-16-2023 7:01 PM Tanypteryx has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 51 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-16-2023 10:50 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

      
    Tanypteryx
    Inactive Member


    (3)
    Message 51 of 381 (913202)
    10-16-2023 10:50 PM
    Reply to: Message 50 by AZPaul3
    10-16-2023 10:23 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    We're going to get sucked into another wasp nest, aren't we?
    Probably, and I'm going to totally blame Phat!

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
    What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
    One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
    If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
    The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 50 by AZPaul3, posted 10-16-2023 10:23 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 52 by Phat, posted 10-17-2023 8:39 PM Tanypteryx has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18455
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 52 of 381 (913209)
    10-17-2023 8:39 PM
    Reply to: Message 51 by Tanypteryx
    10-16-2023 10:50 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    Blame me, eh? Does that mean blame conservatives or does that mean blame religion?
    BBC (10/17/2023):
    Summary
  • Hundreds of Palestinians are feared dead after a huge blast at a hospital in Gaza City, blamed by the Hamas group on an Israeli air strike
  • Israel says the blast was caused by rockets misfired by another group, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and both sides deny blame
  • US President Joe Biden will visit Israel on Wednesday but a planned summit in Jordan with Arab leaders has been cancelled
  • To their credit, Israel has publicly allowed the Palestinian people time to get out of the way so that the Israeli military can root out Hamas as they hide in their many tunnels underneath Gaza City. Hamas responded by urging the Palestinian people to stay put.(so that they can be used to shield Hamas from being isolated from them.) Israel may choose to kill civilians in order to get at Hamas. I hope that the Palestinian people choose to run rather than stick with their terrorist government!
    One more question. If the Gaza strip is nothing more than a large open air prison, why wont any other country nearby, non Jewish, give the Palestinians a more humane place to live? After all, Israel and Palestine will never coexist.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 51 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-16-2023 10:50 PM Tanypteryx has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 53 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-17-2023 9:03 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 54 by AZPaul3, posted 10-17-2023 9:09 PM Phat has replied

      
    Tanypteryx
    Inactive Member


    (1)
    Message 53 of 381 (913211)
    10-17-2023 9:03 PM
    Reply to: Message 52 by Phat
    10-17-2023 8:39 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    Blame me, eh? Does that mean blame conservatives or does that mean blame religion?
    Nope, just you.
    I hope that the Palestinian people choose to run rather than stick with their terrorist government!
    Government? Do you even know what the function of a government is??? Governments keep civilization functioning. Hamas is trying to destroy civilization. They have never performed even a single aspect of a functional government, let alone the most important, protecting their people.
    One more question. If the Gaza strip is nothing more than a large open air prison, why wont any other country nearby, non Jewish, give the Palestinians a more humane place to live? After all, Israel and Palestine will never coexist.
    Yeah, this has been reported for decades, no other Arab country wants them, period. Egypt doesn't seem to want to let them in, even in the most dire circumstances. They can all stand back and let Israel get blamed for everything that happens to the Palestinians and Israel is perfectly willing to play into the part once again, kicking the possibility of peace so far down the road that it's out of sight.

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
    What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
    One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
    If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
    The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 52 by Phat, posted 10-17-2023 8:39 PM Phat has not replied

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 8613
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.4


    Message 54 of 381 (913212)
    10-17-2023 9:09 PM
    Reply to: Message 52 by Phat
    10-17-2023 8:39 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    If the Gaza strip is nothing more than a large open air prison, why wont any other country nearby, non Jewish, give the Palestinians a more humane place to live?
    Do you think we could get Nicaragua to take the Sioux Nation out of the Dakotas?
    Do you think the Sioux would resent your taking away the last of their dignity?
    Hey, here's an idea, let Israel be partitioned into small tent-city enclaves and give all the rest of Palestine back to her people.

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 52 by Phat, posted 10-17-2023 8:39 PM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 55 by Phat, posted 10-17-2023 9:42 PM AZPaul3 has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18455
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 55 of 381 (913214)
    10-17-2023 9:42 PM
    Reply to: Message 54 by AZPaul3
    10-17-2023 9:09 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    Israel was there first.
    Besides, the United States would never go against Israel.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 54 by AZPaul3, posted 10-17-2023 9:09 PM AZPaul3 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 56 by Phat, posted 10-17-2023 9:49 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 57 by AZPaul3, posted 10-18-2023 1:28 AM Phat has replied
     Message 59 by Theodoric, posted 10-18-2023 9:38 AM Phat has replied
     Message 65 by Percy, posted 10-18-2023 11:06 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18455
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 56 of 381 (913215)
    10-17-2023 9:49 PM
    Reply to: Message 55 by Phat
    10-17-2023 9:42 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    I have a better idea. Lets use the technology of the US Military Satellite to locate the underground tunnels. We need to separate Hamas from Palestine.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 55 by Phat, posted 10-17-2023 9:42 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 60 by Theodoric, posted 10-18-2023 9:39 AM Phat has replied

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 8613
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.4


    Message 57 of 381 (913217)
    10-18-2023 1:28 AM
    Reply to: Message 55 by Phat
    10-17-2023 9:42 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    Israel was there first.
    The reality of history says otherwise.
    Besides, the United States would never go against Israel.
    If you elect Trump that may change.
    Trump's turn against Israel offers stark reminder of what his diplomacy looks like | CNN Politics

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 55 by Phat, posted 10-17-2023 9:42 PM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 58 by Phat, posted 10-18-2023 9:01 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18455
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 58 of 381 (913218)
    10-18-2023 9:01 AM
    Reply to: Message 57 by AZPaul3
    10-18-2023 1:28 AM


    War Update from ABC News
    I was just watching ABC News. The events of the last 24 hours were orchestrated to win the hearts and minds of the people. The problem is, it is/was not the American people. In every Arab country, outrage has coalesced against Israel, though Israel denied bombing the hospital. The commentator said that by now it does not matter. The war has captured the emotions of an entire ideological (religious) class of people. World War III has unofficially begun. I am in shock.
    The people of the West, the US, and Europe were united in their support and empathy for Israel before this master move of psychological warfare occurred.
    Did I mention the young? The ones we see glued to their smartphones? They will be vulnerable to propaganda, but hopefully, they will help the rest of us old codgers find peace before we all blow up the planet.
    Seemingly overnight, the "other side" has broadened. Now, Israel and the West stand alone against global public outrage.
    Granted, there will be many voices here that will eventually condemn Israel. Palestine, after all, is "poor and helpless"....a theme that will also grow in this war between the young and the old, the haves and the have-nots, the West and the BRICS. I hate to sound pessimistic, but I fear that Taiwan is not far behind as China consolidates its own interests.
    We must understand how the global news, videos, media of various stripes, and special interests of differing Kingdoms(Countries) and Nations(Ethnic Groups) demand action.
    The challenge now is how to regain peace in the world even as emotions run high, fueled by instant media reporting.
    No rational person or people want war. Perhaps you are right that this button was pushed by the "Master Strategist" Putin....through Iran....but at this point, we don't know the details or the facts. We only know and see the actions and results of war.
    Religion plays a large role in all of this and this seems inevitable. One cannot simply deprogram people off of that drug.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 57 by AZPaul3, posted 10-18-2023 1:28 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 61 by Theodoric, posted 10-18-2023 9:40 AM Phat has replied

      
    Theodoric
    Member
    Posts: 9364
    From: Northwest, WI, USA
    Joined: 08-15-2005
    Member Rating: 2.6


    Message 59 of 381 (913220)
    10-18-2023 9:38 AM
    Reply to: Message 55 by Phat
    10-17-2023 9:42 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    No they were not. Quiet, you are just exposing more of your ignorance.

    What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

    Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

    "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

    If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 55 by Phat, posted 10-17-2023 9:42 PM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 62 by Phat, posted 10-18-2023 10:45 AM Theodoric has replied

      
    Theodoric
    Member
    Posts: 9364
    From: Northwest, WI, USA
    Joined: 08-15-2005
    Member Rating: 2.6


    Message 60 of 381 (913221)
    10-18-2023 9:39 AM
    Reply to: Message 56 by Phat
    10-17-2023 9:49 PM


    Re: War Update from BBC
    Please stop. You are embarrassing yourself.

    What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

    Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

    "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

    If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 56 by Phat, posted 10-17-2023 9:49 PM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 63 by Phat, posted 10-18-2023 10:48 AM Theodoric has replied

      
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