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Author
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Topic: Exposing the evolution theory. Part 2
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sensei
Member Posts: 480 Joined: 01-24-2023
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Message 991 of 1104 (912937)
10-07-2023 4:28 AM
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Reply to: Message 988 by Percy
10-06-2023 1:13 PM
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Re: problems with detecting design
Your view that there can never be 100% certainty, is more subjective, philosophic perspective than factual. If we measure the temperature of flowing water to be 37.1 degrees, how much percentage of certainty do you give it to be that the water, at least most of it, is in liquid form?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 988 by Percy, posted 10-06-2023 1:13 PM | | Percy has replied |
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AZPaul3
Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: 11-06-2006 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 992 of 1104 (912938)
10-07-2023 4:52 AM
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Reply to: Message 991 by sensei
10-07-2023 4:28 AM
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Re: problems with detecting design
Can you be 100% certain the water is liquid? Pressure is the bigger factor than temperature. Has it already sublimated into a plasma? And, you are right. The ban on 100% certainty is philosophic. Science knows from philosophy and math that we will never have all the information in the universe. That's factual. That means, philosophically and actually, we can never have 100% knowledge of anything ever. We can only have such a high enough confidence level that we accept the item as fact. Now history is a different matter. With proper sources and attributions we can pretty much have a 100% confidence level is some historic occurrences. Others, not so much. Think of the difference in saying "The sun came up this morning," versus "The snake talked." 100% certain on the former, not so much the latter.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 991 by sensei, posted 10-07-2023 4:28 AM | | sensei has not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 4.9
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Message 993 of 1104 (912939)
10-07-2023 8:41 AM
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Reply to: Message 991 by sensei
10-07-2023 4:28 AM
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Re: problems with detecting design
sensei writes: Your view that there can never be 100% certainty, is more subjective, philosophic perspective than factual. Tentativity is a fundamental principle of the philosophy of science. That's why we're questioning your claim that there are scientists out there making claims of "absolute truth". Can you produce any examples?
If we measure the temperature of flowing water to be 37.1 degrees, how much percentage of certainty do you give it to be that the water, at least most of it, is in liquid form? It was just an example I used to help make things more clear, not a topic of discussion. If this example doesn't work for you then I'll try to find another. But in case it helps, the principle of tentativity means that the measurement of the flowing water to be 37.1°C is tentative. Yes, you can put error bars around it, but even the error bars have probabilities. For instance, you might give the temperature as 37.1±5°C with 99.9% confidence, or you might give the temperature as 37.1±10°C with 99.999% confidence. That the confidence level never reaches 100% is tentativity. Of course you have to take pressure into account, too. But the main issue was where you're finding scientists making claims of absolute truth. --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 991 by sensei, posted 10-07-2023 4:28 AM | | sensei has not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 4.9
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Message 994 of 1104 (912940)
10-07-2023 8:45 AM
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Reply to: Message 992 by AZPaul3
10-07-2023 4:52 AM
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Re: problems with detecting design
AZPaul3 writes: Now history is a different matter. With proper sources and attributions we can pretty much have a 100% confidence level is some historic occurrences. Others, not so much. Think of the difference in saying "The sun came up this morning," versus "The snake talked." 100% certain on the former, not so much the latter. I don't think we know anything with 100% confidence. --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 992 by AZPaul3, posted 10-07-2023 4:52 AM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
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AZPaul3
Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: 11-06-2006 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 995 of 1104 (912942)
10-07-2023 9:01 AM
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Reply to: Message 994 by Percy
10-07-2023 8:45 AM
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Re: problems with detecting design
Well, I'm almost 100% certain you are probably right.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 994 by Percy, posted 10-07-2023 8:45 AM | | Percy has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 996 of 1104 (912948)
10-07-2023 10:12 AM
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Reply to: Message 990 by sensei
10-07-2023 4:22 AM
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Re: problems with detecting design
Lol. So you got nothing but personal attacks. Back under your rock. I was not questioning your education. I was merely asking what it what was. It would give me an idea of what level you are coming from. I think it is now safe to assume it is a fairly low level and quality. I think I can come to that conclusion due to the evidence you have provided so far. If I am incorrect you will need to provide more evidence if you want to influence my conclusions. Kinda like science.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 990 by sensei, posted 10-07-2023 4:22 AM | | sensei has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 998 by sensei, posted 10-07-2023 12:02 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 997 of 1104 (912950)
10-07-2023 10:17 AM
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Reply to: Message 992 by AZPaul3
10-07-2023 4:52 AM
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Re: problems with detecting design
History is not 100%. One of the biggest recent influences on the study of history is the use of Bayes's Theorem and probability.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 992 by AZPaul3, posted 10-07-2023 4:52 AM | | AZPaul3 has not replied |
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sensei
Member Posts: 480 Joined: 01-24-2023
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Message 998 of 1104 (912960)
10-07-2023 12:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 996 by Theodoric
10-07-2023 10:12 AM
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Re: problems with detecting design
I don't give shit about your assumptions. You have no facts. That is your problem.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 996 by Theodoric, posted 10-07-2023 10:12 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 999 of 1104 (912961)
10-07-2023 12:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 998 by sensei
10-07-2023 12:02 PM
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Re: problems with detecting design
I rest my case.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 998 by sensei, posted 10-07-2023 12:02 PM | | sensei has not replied |
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sensei
Member Posts: 480 Joined: 01-24-2023
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Message 1000 of 1104 (912964)
10-07-2023 12:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 994 by Percy
10-07-2023 8:45 AM
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Re: problems with detecting design
But we do know some things with certainty. If you roll a single regular dice and it lands with one of the six sides, you can be 100% certain, that the side up has at least one dot. Yes, it's 100%. Not 99.99999999%. It's nothing less than 100%.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 994 by Percy, posted 10-07-2023 8:45 AM | | Percy has replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.0
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Message 1001 of 1104 (912966)
10-07-2023 12:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 999 by Theodoric
10-07-2023 12:06 PM
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Re: problems with detecting design
He never seems to actually tell us anything, other than "you don't know anything." And he can't seem to grasp that we just want to see what he knows and HOW he knows it. He behaves as though our questions are attacks rather than queries.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 999 by Theodoric, posted 10-07-2023 12:06 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 1002 of 1104 (912967)
10-07-2023 12:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 1000 by sensei
10-07-2023 12:19 PM
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Re: problems with detecting design
Grasping at straws but not supporting your claim about scientists.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1000 by sensei, posted 10-07-2023 12:19 PM | | sensei has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Re: problems with detecting design
He is a troll. Probably fairly uneducated. Classic "Liar for Jesus".
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.0
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Re: problems with detecting design
Yep, there quite a bit of evidence to support that!
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1003 by Theodoric, posted 10-07-2023 12:29 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 4.9
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Message 1005 of 1104 (912970)
10-07-2023 12:56 PM
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Reply to: Message 998 by sensei
10-07-2023 12:02 PM
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Re: problems with detecting design
sensei in Message 998 writes: I don't give shit about your assumptions. You have no facts. That is your problem. Your difference with Theodoric goes back to when you said this back in Message 980:
sensei in Message 980 writes: Many "scientists" say nothing in science can be proven, but that is simply not true. There have been theories about things in nature, that have later been directly observed with new technology, better microscopes and such. Your problem is, you take something as true, just because some scientist has said it. And you hold on to it with your dear life, as an absolute dogma, and all you can do to defend it, is to call people stupid when they disagree with your illogical ideas. But I think everyone here, not just Theodoric, has problems with this. It *is* true that nothing in science can be proven. You can pile the evidence miles high, but certainty can never be achieved. It's a philosophical principle within science. And no one here accepts anything "just because some scientist has said it." Just look at how we laid into professor Jeffrey H. Schwartz of the University of Pittsburgh about his claim that humans are more closely related to orangutans than chimps. It starts at Message 38, and my response where I basically call him a loon is at Message 44. And then there was professor emeritus John A. Davison of the University of Vermont: John A. Davison Credentials don't matter here, only the quality of the evidence and arguments. In my opinion Theodoric shouldn't be speculating or inquiring about your qualifications. His curiosity is understandable, but they have nothing to do with the topic. --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 998 by sensei, posted 10-07-2023 12:02 PM | | sensei has not replied |
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