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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musing - Webb, Hubble and Other Space Based Observatories
AZPaul3
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Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 61 of 73 (906394)
02-11-2023 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Dredge
02-11-2023 12:34 PM


Re: More religious crap
Liar. And you left out the part about the t-shirt. Despicable.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

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AZPaul3
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Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(4)
Message 62 of 73 (906413)
02-11-2023 4:05 PM


Dark Galaxy?
Now here is something in keeping with the topic of this thread.
Mysterious Dark Galaxy Emits No Visible Light, Scientists Say : ScienceAlert
This may be a long hypothesized massive galactic structure composed of dark matter. It has a few million solar masses of stars and a few million solar masses of gas clouds. It's a dwarf satellite galaxy coasting around the milky way. Problem is when they measure the galactic rotation of the stars and the gas, the galactic mass is rotating like it's multi-billion solar masses of stuff.
Yes, we can relate rotation with mass. It's in the math. Have faith in the QM of the light spectra and the relativity of that Einstein guy.
Another data point, a big heavy one, showing dark matter is real. It just hasn't told us what the hell it is. This find, with further analysis, may be a big help in finding out. We hope.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Phat, posted 02-11-2023 5:21 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 63 of 73 (906416)
02-11-2023 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by AZPaul3
02-11-2023 4:05 PM


Re: Dark Galaxy?
Science Alert writes:
It is possible we're simply unable to detect some kinds of dwarf galaxy, such as those with very few stars, consisting primarily of gas and dark matter. Finding enough of them would help resolve the whole shortfall in dwarf galaxies.
Its ironic how the "dark side" holds everything together!

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by AZPaul3, posted 02-11-2023 4:05 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 64 of 73 (906419)
02-11-2023 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Phat
02-11-2023 5:21 PM


Re: Dark Galaxy?
You wanna join?
BabyFest?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Phat, posted 02-11-2023 5:21 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
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Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 65 of 73 (906525)
02-13-2023 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Phat
02-11-2023 5:21 PM


Re: Dark Galaxy?
Phat writes:
Its ironic how the "dark side" holds everything together!
Dark energy is ripping the universe apart.

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Tanypteryx
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Posts: 4501
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(4)
Message 66 of 73 (907517)
02-24-2023 7:12 PM


A Possible Explanation for Dark Energy
OK, I saw this a couple days ago but didn't have time to read it until now, but this seems like research that the science nerds really need to keep an eye on, because this study points to concrete ways to test the hypothesis.
“Cosmological Coupling” – New Evidence Points to Black Holes as Source of Dark Energy
quote:
Searching through existing data spanning 9 billion years, a team of researchers led by scientists at the University of Hawaiʻi at Manoa has uncovered the first evidence of “cosmological coupling” – a newly predicted phenomenon in Einstein’s theory of gravity, possible only when black holes are placed inside an evolving universe.
Astrophysicists Duncan Farrah and Kevin Croker led this ambitious study, combining Hawaiʻi’s expertise in galaxy evolution and gravity theory with the observation and analysis experience of researchers across nine countries to provide the first insight into what might exist inside real black holes.
“When LIGO heard the first pair of black holes merge in late 2015, everything changed,” said Croker. “The signal was in excellent agreement with predictions on paper, but extending those predictions to millions, or billions of years? Matching that model of black holes to our expanding universe? It wasn’t at all clear how to do that.”
The team has recently published two papers, one in The Astrophysical Journal and the other in The Astrophysical Journal Letters, that studied supermassive black holes at the hearts of ancient and dormant galaxies.
The first paper found that these black holes gain mass over billions of years in a way that can’t easily be explained by standard galaxy and black hole processes, such as mergers or accretion of gas.
The second paper finds that the growth in mass of these black holes matches predictions for black holes that not only cosmologically couple, but also enclose vacuum energy—material that results from squeezing matter as much as possible without breaking Einstein’s equations, thus avoiding a singularity.
With singularities absent, the paper then shows that the combined vacuum energy of black holes produced in the deaths of the universe’s first stars agrees with the measured quantity of dark energy in our universe.
“We’re really saying two things at once: that there’s evidence the typical black hole solutions don’t work for you on a long, long timescale, and we have the first proposed astrophysical source for dark energy,” said Farrah, lead author of both papers.
So, if these observations are confirmed this could fundamentally change how astrophysics describes black holes and may also explain how supermassive blackholes got their super size in only 12.7 billion years.
quote:
Black holes come from dead large stars, so if you know how many large stars you are making, you can estimate how many black holes you are making and how much they grow as a result of cosmological coupling. The team used the very latest measurements of the rate of earliest star formation provided by the James Webb Space Telescope and found that the numbers line up.
According to the researchers, their studies provide a framework for theoretical physicists and astronomers to further test—and for the current generation of dark energy experiments such as the Dark Energy Spectroscopic Instrument and the Dark Energy Survey—to shed light on the idea.
“If confirmed this would be a remarkable result, pointing the way towards the next generation of black hole solutions,” said Farrah.
Croker added, “This measurement, explaining why the universe is accelerating now, gives a beautiful glimpse into the real strength of Einstein’s gravity. A chorus of tiny voices spread throughout the universe can work together to steer the entire cosmos. How cool is that?”
Boy, if this data holds up to scrutiny there could be multiple Nobel Prizes.
References:
“A Preferential Growth Channel for Supermassive Black Holes in Elliptical Galaxies at z ≲ 2” by Duncan Farrah, Sara Petty, Kevin S. Croker, Gregory Tarlé, Michael Zevin, Evanthia Hatziminaoglou, Francesco Shankar, Lingyu Wang, David L Clements, Andreas Efstathiou, Mark Lacy, Kurtis A. Nishimura, Jose Afonso, Chris Pearson and Lura K Pitchford, 15 February 2023, The Astrophysical Journal.
DOI: 10.3847/1538-4357/acac2e
“Observational Evidence for Cosmological Coupling of Black Holes and its Implications for an Astrophysical Source of Dark Energy” by Duncan Farrah, Kevin S. Croker, Michael Zevin, Gregory Tarlé, Valerio Faraoni, Sara Petty, Jose Afonso, Nicolas Fernandez, Kurtis A. Nishimura, Chris Pearson, Lingyu Wang, David L Clements, Andreas Efstathiou, Evanthia Hatziminaoglou, Mark Lacy, Conor McPartland, Lura K Pitchford, Nobuyuki Sakai and Joel Weiner, 15 February 2023, The Astrophysical Journal Letters.
DOI: 10.3847/2041-8213/acb704

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4501
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(3)
Message 67 of 73 (911365)
06-29-2023 2:38 PM


Gravitational Waves From Merging Supermassive Black Holes “Heard” for First Time
Louder Than Expected: Gravitational Waves From Merging Supermassive Black Holes “Heard” for First Time
quote:
Following 15 years of observing pulsars, the NANOGrav collaboration has detected gravitational waves stronger than ever before, likely produced by supermassive black hole pairs. This groundbreaking discovery presents the first evidence for the gravitational wave background, which is surprisingly louder than anticipated, possibly pointing to an abundance of supermassive black holes or alternative gravitational wave sources.
quote:
The groundbreaking discovery was made by scientists with the North American Nanohertz Observatory for Gravitational Waves (NANOGrav) who closely observed stars called pulsars that act as celestial metronomes. The newly detected gravitational waves — ripples in the fabric of space-time — are by far the most powerful ever measured: They carry roughly a million times as much energy as the one-off bursts of gravitational waves from black hole and neutron star mergers detected by experiments such as LIGO and Virgo.
quote:
Most of the gigantean gravitational waves are probably produced by pairs of supermassive black holes spiraling toward cataclysmic collisions throughout the cosmos, the NANOGrav scientists report in a series of new papers published today (June 29) in The Astrophysical Journal Letters.
quote:
“It’s like a choir, with all these supermassive black hole pairs chiming in at different frequencies,” says NANOGrav scientist Chiara Mingarelli, who worked on the new findings while an associate research scientist at the Flatiron Institute’s Center for Computational Astrophysics (CCA) in New York City. “This is the first-ever evidence for the gravitational wave background. We’ve opened a new window of observation on the universe.”
The existence and composition of the gravitational wave background — long theorized but never before heard — presents a treasure trove of new insights into long-standing questions, from the fate of supermassive black hole pairs to the frequency of galaxy mergers.
An ingenious new technique to detect gravitational waves and listen to the gravitational wave background!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by AZPaul3, posted 06-30-2023 12:26 AM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(2)
Message 68 of 73 (911366)
06-30-2023 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by Tanypteryx
06-29-2023 2:38 PM


Re: Gravitational Waves From Merging Supermassive Black Holes “Heard” for First Time
I know we talked about this a few years ago. I can't find the thread. Using a grid of precisely timed pulsars to detect gravitational waves. At the time we talked about thinking of this as standing on a street corner and hearing the city crashing by in a constant din of waves. Now they are making this real.
As I recall, which is none too clear, you said at the time you would be disappointed with a symphony of the cosmos but wanted a snapshot instead. From what I've seen in their work, you may get the pictures you're looking for.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-29-2023 2:38 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

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 Message 69 by Percy, posted 06-30-2023 1:08 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22608
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 69 of 73 (911372)
06-30-2023 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by AZPaul3
06-30-2023 12:26 AM


Re: Gravitational Waves From Merging Supermassive Black Holes “Heard” for First Time
AZPaul3 writes:
I know we talked about this a few years ago. I can't find the thread.
Maybe Message 25?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by AZPaul3, posted 06-30-2023 12:26 AM AZPaul3 has replied

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 70 of 73 (911373)
06-30-2023 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Percy
06-30-2023 1:08 PM


Re: Gravitational Waves From Merging Supermassive Black Holes “Heard” for First Time
That be it, Percy. Thank you.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4501
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 71 of 73 (911560)
07-15-2023 10:57 AM


New Research Doubles Universe’s Age to 26.7 Billion Years
Cosmic Paradigm Shift: New Research Doubles Universe’s Age to 26.7 Billion Years
I saw reports of this a couple days ago and was surprised that it didn't catch the media's attention, it seems like the perfect story for clickbait. There are some clear disagreements in the astrophysics/cosmology community about the expansion rate of the Universe, the nature of Dark Energy and Dark Matter, and the origin of supermassive black holes.
Observations over the past year with JWST have shown us parts of the Universe that were completely invisible to us before, because of distance and far-infrared wavelengths, and they seem to be deepening the mysteries rather than answering them.
quote:
Our universe could be twice as old as current estimates, according to a new study that challenges the dominant cosmological model and sheds new light on the so-called “impossible early galaxy problem.”
“Our newly-devised model stretches the galaxy formation time by several billion years, making the universe 26.7 billion years old, and not 13.7 as previously estimated,” says author Rajendra Gupta, adjunct professor of physics in the Faculty of Science at the University of Ottawa.
For years, astronomers and physicists have calculated the age of our universe by measuring the time elapsed since the Big Bang and by studying the oldest stars based on the redshift of light coming from distant galaxies. In 2021, thanks to new techniques and advances in technology, the age of our universe was thus estimated at 13.797 billion years using the Lambda-CDM concordance model.
The Lambda-CDM (Lambda-Cold Dark Matter) concordance model, also known as the standard model of cosmology, is currently the simplest and most widely accepted model that describes the evolution of the universe from its earliest moments to the present day.
However, many scientists have been puzzled by the existence of stars like the Methuselah that appear to be older than the estimated age of our universe and by the discovery of early galaxies in an advanced state of evolution made possible by the James Webb Space Telescope. These galaxies, existing a mere 300 million years or so after the Big Bang, appear to have a level of maturity and mass typically associated with billions of years of cosmic evolution. Furthermore, they’re surprisingly small in size, adding another layer of mystery to the equation.
Zwicky’s tired light theory proposes that the redshift of light from distant galaxies is due to the gradual loss of energy by photons over vast cosmic distances. However, it was seen to conflict with observations. Yet Gupta found that “by allowing this theory to coexist with the expanding universe, it becomes possible to reinterpret the redshift as a hybrid phenomenon, rather than purely due to expansion.”
In addition to Zwicky’s tired light theory, Gupta introduces the idea of evolving “coupling constants,” as hypothesized by Paul Dirac. Coupling constants are fundamental physical constants that govern the interactions between particles. According to Dirac, these constants might have varied over time. By allowing them to evolve, the timeframe for the formation of early galaxies observed by the Webb telescope at high redshifts can be extended from a few hundred million years to several billion years. This provides a more feasible explanation for the advanced level of development and mass observed in these ancient galaxies.
Moreover, Gupta suggests that the traditional interpretation of the “cosmological constant,” which represents dark energy responsible for the accelerating expansion of the universe, needs revision. Instead, he proposes a constant that accounts for the evolution of the coupling constants. This modification in the cosmological model helps address the puzzle of small galaxy sizes observed in the early universe, allowing for more accurate observations.
Reference: “JWST early Universe observations and ΛCDM cosmology” by R Gupta, 7 July 2023, Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society.
DOI: 10.1093/mnras/stad2032
In this Golden Age of Astronomy, we need to remember that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Percy, posted 07-15-2023 11:11 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22608
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 72 of 73 (911562)
07-15-2023 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Tanypteryx
07-15-2023 10:57 AM


Re: New Research Doubles Universe’s Age to 26.7 Billion Years
My initial reaction before reading your message or the article? That's absurd. Reading now...
It's based on Zwicky's tired light theory. There's no evidence supporting this theory.
There was a tired light discussion a long while back: Tired Light
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-15-2023 10:57 AM Tanypteryx has replied

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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4501
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 73 of 73 (911565)
07-15-2023 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Percy
07-15-2023 11:11 AM


Re: New Research Doubles Universe’s Age to 26.7 Billion Years
It's based on Zwicky's tired light theory. There's no evidence supporting this theory.
Yeah, I suspect we are going to see a lot of unsupported hypotheses dusted off and compared to new observations that don't have immediate explanations. I also suspect that many astrophysicists are ecstatic about all the new mysteries!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Percy, posted 07-15-2023 11:11 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
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