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Author Topic:   Gun Control III
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 1172 of 1184 (909592)
04-06-2023 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1169 by marc9000
04-05-2023 8:17 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
Here's a New York Times article about the descent of Fox News into sensationalistic lies: How Fox Chased Its Audience Down the Rabbit Hole. It's sub-headline:
New York Times:
Rupert Murdoch built an empire by giving viewers exactly what they wanted. But what they wanted — election lies and insurrection — put that empire (and the country) in peril.
Pretty much sums it up. Journalism is afforded broad protections against charges like defamation, but they can't cross the line into actual malice. The question at trial will be if it can be deemed actual malice when all Fox News was doing was pursuing viewers. But is pursuit of viewers at any cost, especially to truth and accuracy, still journalism?
If Fox News was not practicing journalism when they reported what their viewers wanted to hear instead of what was true, then they face an existential crisis, both in terms of whether they're truly practicing journalism and whether they will even survive since the sum of the judgments requested by Dominion (voting machines) and Smartmatic (voting software) exceed $4 billion.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1169 by marc9000, posted 04-05-2023 8:17 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1174 by marc9000, posted 04-06-2023 8:59 PM Percy has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 1173 of 1184 (909621)
04-06-2023 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1171 by Percy
04-06-2023 8:46 AM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
Sure you can. You need only explain why the discovery phase of the Dominion proceedings didn't reveal exactly what it looks like, Fox News airing whatever enables it to keep and gain viewers without regard to truth, accuracy, honesty and integrity.
I'm not interested in the Dominion circus. Fox News has been on the air since 1996, if this is its first big lawsuit, it's done very well. The NY Times has been sued for its lies countless times for the past 100 years. I'll detail some NY Times history in the next message.
I've been saying we're dying for years now, but look at it this way. Where's MySpace? Where's Napster?
Where's Digg? Where's AltaVista, WebCrawler, Lycos and Infoseek (search engines)? Nothing lasts forever, but EvC Forum began in 2001 and for now it's still here, having outlasted probably 99% of the other websites that were alive in 2001.
You've done well! These types of discussion forums were great fun for a lot of people 20 years ago, but 5 to 10 years ago their popularity started to fade. There were a lot more posters and discussions here back when I joined 13 years ago. Maybe if you still enforced forum rules evenly like you did back then, it would all be over by now. Letting the far lefties reign free - letting them insult and troll out conservative posters might be good for the forums health. I'd only like to contribute by not letting the Biden thread sit unused, should help give them yet one more thing to rage about.
Marc, I'm only reminding you about the Forum Guidelines. I have no enforcement powers here because I'm a participant.
Isn't "reminding" me, a part, however small, of enforcement? Why don't you remind Theodoric?
I *did* respond to your Message 306.
Very briefly, without responding to much of what it said.
I endorsed finding and punishing wrongdoing. If any of the things Comer said turn out to be true then I hope they investigate and indict, but Comer's recent record on truth and accuracy has been on par with Fox News.
And you learned that from the NY Times? Have you ever actually seen him speak?
Not sure if anybody but Fox News allows hardly any Republican to speak, so the public can decide for themselves.
I'm socially liberal and financially conservative,
The two don't go together. Social liberalism requires money.
But my political neutrality...
That's a good one, I love this place!!
... doesn't mean sticking my head in the sand. There are obvious differences between legitimate news media and Fox News. One exchanges lies for ratings, the others don't.
You're about to learn something about the NY Times.
Boy, you sure turn into a sourpuss when a joke goes over your head. My post was just one in a sequence of six consecutive April Fool's Day posts,
I referenced more than just your April 1st messages. I also referenced Message 1123. That one was on January 28th. A picture with NONE of your own words.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1171 by Percy, posted 04-06-2023 8:46 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1175 by Theodoric, posted 04-06-2023 9:09 PM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 1178 by Percy, posted 04-07-2023 8:54 AM marc9000 has seen this message but not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 1174 of 1184 (909622)
04-06-2023 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1172 by Percy
04-06-2023 10:09 AM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
Here's a New York Times article about the descent of Fox News into sensationalistic lies: How Fox Chased Its Audience Down the Rabbit Hole. It's sub-headline:
I can't read there without giving them my email address. No can do.
quote:
New York Times:
Rupert Murdoch built an empire by giving viewers exactly what they wanted. But what they wanted — election lies and insurrection — put that empire (and the country) in peril.
Aaaaand the NY Times built an empire for over 100 years, by giving its readers exactly what they wanted. liberal propaganda. They've been sued many times over the past 100 years, and have been caught in lies many times in those 100 years. I can't believe they're so dense that they don't realize that by attacking Fox News they're drawing attention to themselves.
List of controversies involving The New York Times - Wikipedia
quote:
The New York Times has been involved in many controversies since its foundation in 1851. It is one of the largest newspapers in the United States and the world,[1] and is considered to have worldwide influence and readership.[2][3] It has been accused of Antisemitism,[4][5] bias,[6][7][8] and playing a notable role in influencing the Iraq War due to its misleading coverage of Saddam Hussein.
Putting the U.S. in peril, anyone?
quote:
In September 1996, the Times released a statement admitting to "underplaying the Holocaust while it was taking place" and that "[c]lippings from the paper show that the criticism is valid."[23]
Putting the U.S. in peril, anyone? Is this enough of my own words to satisfy forum guidelines?
https://www.amazon.com/...ked-Ashley-Rindsberg/dp/1736703307
There's even a book on the NY Times. Any books in the works for Fox News, that will be this thick?
How the New York Times publishes lies to serve a biased narrative
quote:
The “fabrications and distortions” he found in the Times’ coverage of major stories from Hitler’s Germany and Stalin’s Russia to Vietnam and the Iraq War “were never the product of simple error,” Rindsberg contends.
“Rather, they were the byproduct of a particular kind of system, a truth-producing machine” constructed to twist facts into a pattern of the Times’ own choosing, he says.
They do all this for the same reasons you accuse Fox of having. Some news sources lean right, others lean left. Their reasoning is the same. Ratings and money. There are charts in many places on the net that show the political leanings of different news outlets, Fox News is no different than any other. The NY Times attacking Fox is a classic example of the pot calling the kettle black.
You invited me some time back to start a "news media" thread. That could be a possibility now, considering all this new shrieking about Fox News. This one message of mine could pretty well cover it however. I'm done now until after Easter, but next week that could happen if you'd like to go into it deeper. Problem is, I'm not in the mood to have a new thread wrecked by all these trolls. Several of them don't contribute a thing to the discussion, and routinely break rule #s 4, 5, 8, and especially #10.
If you let the trolls reign free, I'm out. Could be fun though, I haven't even checked into the Washington Post, ABC, CBS, NBC, or CNN yet. .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1172 by Percy, posted 04-06-2023 10:09 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1176 by Theodoric, posted 04-06-2023 9:11 PM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 1177 by PaulK, posted 04-07-2023 2:49 AM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 1179 by Percy, posted 04-07-2023 9:35 AM marc9000 has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9280
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1175 of 1184 (909624)
04-06-2023 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1173 by marc9000
04-06-2023 8:52 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
What forum rules am I breaking?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1173 by marc9000, posted 04-06-2023 8:52 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9280
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1176 of 1184 (909625)
04-06-2023 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1174 by marc9000
04-06-2023 8:59 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
Off-topic and irrelevant to the subject matter. Go whine elsewhere.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1174 by marc9000, posted 04-06-2023 8:59 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17838
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 1177 of 1184 (909629)
04-07-2023 2:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1174 by marc9000
04-06-2023 8:59 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
quote:
List of controversies involving The New York Times - Wikipedia
quote:
The New York Times has been involved in many controversies since its foundation in 1851. It is one of the largest newspapers in the United States and the world,[1] and is considered to have worldwide influence and readership.[2][3] It has been accused of Antisemitism,[4][5] bias,[6][7][8] and playing a notable role in influencing the Iraq War due to its misleading coverage of Saddam Hussein.
Putting the U.S. in peril, anyone?
Perhaps you might like to explain how those particular falsehoods promoted by the NYT “influencing the Iraq War” “Put the U.S. in peril”. Perhaps you might also like to tell us what Fox News said on the same issue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1174 by marc9000, posted 04-06-2023 8:59 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.5


(3)
Message 1178 of 1184 (909635)
04-07-2023 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1173 by marc9000
04-06-2023 8:52 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
marc9000 writes:
Sure you can. You need only explain why the discovery phase of the Dominion proceedings didn't reveal exactly what it looks like, Fox News airing whatever enables it to keep and gain viewers without regard to truth, accuracy, honesty and integrity.
I'm not interested in the Dominion circus.
Why not? Discovery revealed that, according to Wikipedia:
Wikipedia:
Internal communications released in February 2023 showed several prominent network hosts and senior executives—including chairman Murdoch and CEO Scott—discussing their knowledge that 2020 presidential election fraud allegations they were reporting were false; the communications showed the network was concerned that not reporting the falsehoods would alienate viewers and cause them to switch to rival conservative networks, impacting corporate profitability.
This is pretty much what the New York Times said, and what anyone reading these Fox News internal communications would think. These aren't conservative or liberal conclusions. They're what any reasonable person would conclude from the facts. There's no liberal conspiracy making up texts and emails. They're what Fox News contributors and management actually said. Whether it passes the very high threshold for defamation won't be known for a while, but it certainly clearly indicates that Fox News places a much higher priority on what their viewers want to hear rather than on what is true. This should concern you to the extent that Fox News is an outlet you pay attention to because of the false things you could be convinced to believe.
Fox News has been on the air since 1996, if this is its first big lawsuit, it's done very well. The NY Times has been sued for its lies countless times for the past 100 years. I'll detail some NY Times history in the next message.
Fox News gets sued, too, but a key question is if you wanted to know the truth about, say, the 2020 election, would you go to Fox News or the New York Times? Whatever your answer, please explain why?
Maybe if you still enforced forum rules evenly like you did back then, it would all be over by now.
There hasn't been a single act of enforcement here since 2020.
Letting the far lefties reign free - letting them insult and troll out conservative posters might be good for the forums health.
And your campaign of grievance is unrelenting. It doesn't matter what people say to you, you carry on a campaign of complaints and insults. You might find a little self reflection helpful.
I'd only like to contribute by not letting the Biden thread sit unused, should help give them yet one more thing to rage about.
And there you go again. In your mind people who don't share your opinions don't discuss, they rage. You can't see the plank in your own eye.
Marc, I'm only reminding you about the Forum Guidelines. I have no enforcement powers here because I'm a participant.
Isn't "reminding" me, a part, however small, of enforcement? Why don't you remind Theodoric?
Why don't you? You have as much power in this thread as me. What do you imagine he did, anyway? What do you think of the propriety of implying someone did something wrong while not saying what it was but just leaving the implication hanging in the air?
I *did* respond to your Message 306.
Very briefly, without responding to much of what it said.
You have a problem with brevity and succinctness? Was my reply so insufficiently long that you feel aggrieved and put upon again? Do you object to what I said about finding and punishing wrongdoing regardless of party affiliation?
And you learned that from the NY Times?
And the Post, but you can find Comer's actions and quotes at any number of news outlets. He's accused the Biden's of being a crime family. I was speaking in general terms, but the bottom line is that if he's right then the Biden's should be held accountable. Yet you're unhappy with that, and you're attacking my claims of neutrality while not explaining how wanting both Trump and Biden (or anyone) held accountable for whatever they did is somehow not neutral.
Not sure if anybody but Fox News allows hardly any Republican to speak, so the public can decide for themselves.
The Post and the Times and all the media are constantly reporting on what McCarthy, McConnell, Greene, Jordan, Scalise, Stefanik, Cruz, Trump, Haley, Paul, Rubio, Pence, Huckabee, Thomas, Alito Romeny, Perry, Kushner and Graham do and say. Apologies for leaving out any important Republicans.
I'm socially liberal and financially conservative,
The two don't go together. Social liberalism requires money.
Of course they go together. I'm for helping the poor and the discriminated against while maintaining a responsible and healthy financial environment.
But my political neutrality...
That's a good one, I love this place!!
There you go casting unsupported aspersions again without an ounce of support. Your incessant attacks on the people you discuss with is why you experience the treatment you express endless grievance about. Try behaving like a human being and see if things don't improve for you.
... doesn't mean sticking my head in the sand. There are obvious differences between legitimate news media and Fox News. One exchanges lies for ratings, the others don't.
You're about to learn something about the NY Times.
The New York Times is one of the finest, if not the finest, news organizations in the world. That doesn't mean they're perfect, but perfection is only an ideal, not a reality. But I again contrast them to Fox News, and also Newsmax and OAN News. The evidence that these outlets worship at the altar of viewership rather than of journalistic standards is clear and obvious. That you don't want to see this is embodied in your disinterest in the Dominion case and all that discovery has revealed about Fox News.
Boy, you sure turn into a sourpuss when a joke goes over your head. My post was just one in a sequence of six consecutive April Fool's Day posts,
I referenced more than just your April 1st messages. I also referenced Message 1123. That one was on January 28th. A picture with NONE of your own words.
You're just looking for things to be aggrieved about. The posting of an editorial cartoon that was a reply to no one and not part of any discussion did not warrant any discussion. What is wrong with you that when rightfully criticized you strike out irrationally?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1173 by marc9000, posted 04-06-2023 8:52 PM marc9000 has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 1179 of 1184 (909636)
04-07-2023 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1174 by marc9000
04-06-2023 8:59 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
marc9000 writes:
I can't read there without giving them my email address. No can do.
That might hinder your investigation, don't you think?
Aaaaand the NY Times built an empire for over 100 years, by giving its readers exactly what they wanted. liberal propaganda.
Their editorial stance is liberal, their news reporting much more neutral.
They've been sued many times over the past 100 years, and have been caught in lies many times in those 100 years. I can't believe they're so dense that they don't realize that by attacking Fox News they're drawing attention to themselves.
The New York Times is one of the finest news organizations in the world. That doesn't mean perfect, and there is no perfect news organization out there. No perfect anything, actually. The word "sued" or "sues" only appears in the Wikipedia article four times, so I'm curious where your information is coming from, but I think the New York Times, indeed anyone and any organization, should be held accountable for any violations of the law.
But comparisons between Fox News and the New York Times leaves no room for ambiguity as to news quality. Fox News says whatever it takes to maintain and grow viewership without regard to reality. That's not journalism, that's entertainment. Unlike Fox News, the New York Times pays a great deal of attention to journalistic requirements.
And when you compare news organizations journalistically, if you want to know what really happened, where do you want to be getting your news from? From the one that will tell you what you want to hear, or the one most likely to tell you the truth?
You can start a news media thread if you like, but I don't think you'll be happy with the way it goes. Your continual airing of your supposed grievances is just a way for you to gather more grievances. You'll start by complaining about the media, probably mostly ABC's World News Tonight, then you'll set into complaining about the people responding to you and calling them liars and trolls. You don't tolerate other opinions well.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1174 by marc9000, posted 04-06-2023 8:59 PM marc9000 has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9531
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 1180 of 1184 (910826)
05-18-2023 3:08 AM


Serbia can do it. After a mass school shooting
“ President Aleksander Vucic pledged the "practical disarmament" of the country, as he announced a list of new security measures intended to improve gun control on Friday morning.”
Serbians hand in guns and question culture of violence after two shootings - BBC News

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 1181 by Percy, posted 05-18-2023 8:24 AM Tangle has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 1181 of 1184 (910828)
05-18-2023 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1180 by Tangle
05-18-2023 3:08 AM


Tangle writes:
Serbia can do it. After a mass school shooting
“President Aleksander Vucic pledged the "practical disarmament" of the country, as he announced a list of new security measures intended to improve gun control on Friday morning.”
Serbians hand in guns and question culture of violence after two shootings - BBC News
As any self-respecting NRA member will tell you, Serbia is headed for disaster. Soon it will be the criminals running the country, and normal citizens will be at their mercy. Without an armed citizenry the criminals will soon murder everyone or force them to join their ranks.
Japan has one of the lowest gun ownership rates in the world and also one of the lowest gun death rates. You know what that tells you? They're lying, and you know I'm telling the truth because I can type. Japan's streets are filled with gun carnage because their citizens are unable to defend themselves and are completely vulnerable to gun violence.
Singapore? Same thing. Don't believe those idyllic photographs showing clean and orderly streets. Those are actually images of downtown Detroit. Don't believe me? Remember, I can type.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1180 by Tangle, posted 05-18-2023 3:08 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1182 by Tangle, posted 05-18-2023 8:43 AM Percy has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9531
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(5)
Message 1182 of 1184 (910829)
05-18-2023 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1181 by Percy
05-18-2023 8:24 AM


I was sat in a coffee shop in downtown Tokyo with my son. A girl came in, took out her $1500 MacBook and placed it on an empty table. She then went to the toilet, then to the bar and returned to her table with her coffee. Took about 15 minutes in all.
I was gobsmacked. If that had been London the MacBook would have been gone in a flash.
My son says that that is perfectly normal and the way you reserve your place. He doesn't do it though.
Culture is a weird thing.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1181 by Percy, posted 05-18-2023 8:24 AM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.5


(3)
Message 1183 of 1184 (910840)
05-19-2023 12:59 PM


Police the Same the World Over
Here's one for the books from Australia: Australian police taser a 95-year-old woman with dementia
The gist is that a 95-year-old women women with dementia living in a nursing home found her way to the kitchen and obtained a knife. When discovered with the knife staff called police. When police arrived she wouldn't obey instructions to put the knife down, so as she slowly approached them in her walker they Tasared her. She's in critical condition in the hospital.
The US is not the only country in the world where the police should not be dealing with the sick, disabled or mentally diminished. Their only tool is a hammer, so that's what they use.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 1184 by Percy, posted 05-30-2023 9:33 PM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 1184 of 1184 (910992)
05-30-2023 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1183 by Percy
05-19-2023 12:59 PM


Re: Police the Same the World Over
Followup: she later died.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1183 by Percy, posted 05-19-2023 12:59 PM Percy has not replied

  
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