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Author | Topic: Choosing a faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18339 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Why are you conflating Christianity at large with a cult leader?
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Phat Member Posts: 18339 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
AZ Delusions writes: Perhaps you don't understand my point. Scientific law exists and has existed without humans. We simply learned the theory and law which proved what already existed and which had been operational in practice.
It couldn't. And the "Piano Man" existed before Billy Joel was born. Joel just "discovered" the relationships between the notes. Discovered does not equate to "Created". There are numerous...perhaps infinite relationships between notes that have not yet been composed or defined to the satisfaction of human understanding or enjoyment. To argue otherwise would place humans on the level of creators. And yet there is nothing new under the sun. Your warped deification of human reasoning explains your anti bent.
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Phat Member Posts: 18339 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
PaulK writes: Wellll Excuuuuse Me!
Most of us regard quote mining as a bad thing.
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Phat Member Posts: 18339 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
We? We schmee....I recognize no group authority here.kick rocks
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Phat Member Posts: 18339 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
You have one final message pending on the other topic. Then the topic will close. Why not post this over there?
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Phat Member Posts: 18339 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
candle2 writes: I don't understand why you should be upset with me.I post my sources, especially my Biblical sources, when I post. I'm not upset with anyone at EvC at the moment. Did you understand why I labeled you a Binitarian?
candle2 writes: One thing I have noticed about Biblical Creationists at this Forum is that they *all* to a tee pick on Darwin. Darwin becomes a sort of a straw-man.
Evolutionists on this forum can laugh at creationists, butwhen someone makes fun of their precious Darwin they suddenly become very defensive. Tangle writes: Similarly, had Henry Ford *not* invented the Model T, someone else would have done so, likely under a different name.
You know that Darwin has been dead for over 150 years? He's a hero of ours because he was the first to discover that life evolved but the science left him behind long ago. He's not our Jesus. We don't read his book for scientific insight or get on our knees in worship. He's of historic interest only now. And by the way, had Darwin not discovered evolution, someone else would because it's just a fact of life.candle2 writes: Out of curiosity, I put your sentence into the search engine to check where you were getting your sources. Most competent geneticists and biologists today know that organisms are pre-programmed to adapt to new environments in a few generations.This is what popped up: 1) National Geographic--. Theory of Evolution 2) Evidence for evolution (article) Khan Academy --Evidence for evolution 3) Lamarckism | Facts, Theory, & Contrast with Darwinism--Lamarckism (scientific theory) Which only shows that there are far more names to question than simply Darwin.
candle2 writes: So out of curiousity, what are your sources as you attempt to learn just enough science to refute it? I can tolerate what others call me because I believe in what I write. Ever since I came to this forum 19 years ago, I never cared one whit about disproving evolution. And I was newly saved when I first came here.
candle2 writes: Fair enough. I get annoyed by those who claim that evolution is aproven fact, supported by science. I get annoyed when evolutionists cannot give examples of life coming from non-life. I get annoyed by evolutionists who insist that all organisms evolved from a common ancestor, especially since they are unable to prove (not guess-guess work is not science) an observable process whereby information can be added to the genetic code of an organism. In order to state that evolution is the process by which all organisms descended from a single ancestor they must prove this assertion with observable processes. I am not looking for respect. Everyone who matters to me respects me. I am defending the God whom I serve. He is all that matters to me. Keep in mind though that this topic is not about evolution but about faith.
GDR in Message One:
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Phat Member Posts: 18339 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Out of curiousity, I typed Is Evolution A proven Fact? into the Duck Duck Search Engine.
The only source among the six or seven listed that challenged the legitimacy of evolution came from Ken Ham. From Answers In Genesis which trains newbie believers into defending Biblical Creationism. The rest of the sources were interesting seeing as how they were not making the same argument (Evolution VERSUS Creationism) but were merely explaining the science and theory behind modern biology. If we were to somehow magically agree and throw out the entire theories behind Biological Evolution, what would we have left? Does anyone expect society to slap their foreheads, realize that the Bible is literally true and bow at the altar of Genesis? (Dont forget to visit Ken Hams enormous wooden boat depicted to look like the Ark of Noah! ) Again, Im not at all sure why defending literal creationism is a hill worth dying on. This article was informative. 15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense As was this one: The five most common misunderstandings about evolution The Conversation:
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Phat Member Posts: 18339 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
This is where you stop reading the Bible for yourself and go off on your church's teachings.
Light on Day 1 but the Sun on Day 4? I get that you believe that your church has sound teachings, but just like dwise1 is sweating me in regards to Calvary Chapel, I am going to sweat you in regards to the United Church of God. First, let's examine what the church says about itself.
About the United Church of GodYour church is very thorough in its education of members beyond the Bible itself. I don't see any false teachings yet, but I am wary since years ago I listened to Herbert W. Armstrong. Apparently, your church was a reorganized new start, though Ambassador College descends from Armstrong as does the magazine (formerly known as The Plain Truth ) and now known as Beyond Today.To be fair, it looks as if your church UCG split from Armstrong's Worldwide Church Of God in 1995. I'm not challenging your core teachings yet, though it appears that you have been taught an agenda. Dwise1 reminds me that Calvary Chapel had a strong agenda and that there is organized religion behind the scenes.
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Phat Member Posts: 18339 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Theodoric writes: Critical Thinkers, by contrast, believe *NOTHING* without verifiable evidence. If God exists, I wonder why He set it up that way. Fundies will believe anything. And I wonder why you, who never was a believer, can throw stones at belief simply due to the fact that it does not ascribe to your rules of evidence?
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Phat Member Posts: 18339 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
First, I want to go deeper into how you actually read the Bible and rejected all of it.
I can see a guy who goes to marriage counseling, gets handed authoritarianism by Christian sources, rejects the whole kit and kaboodle of Christian thinking, and becomes reinforcingly more of a critical thinker. I cant understand, however, why it is so hard to believe in Jesus Christ as Gods character. Is it the whole logical argument from older religions about anthropomorphizing God? Is it witnessing the bad behavior of self-professed believers?For you, I know that the pattern of lies and denials among creationists was notable, but Why this carries over into believers who have no problems with evolution mystifies me. I think I know the answer, though it is but a guess. A lot of you disapprove of conservatives.
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Phat Member Posts: 18339 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Oh stop! That's not similar to the Bible at all! You must ask yourself why you feel the need to say such things.
We fully understand that you have the position that all beliefs are but myths and fables, but your need to emphasize this shows me that you are but reinforcing your lack of belief.
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Phat Member Posts: 18339 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
All I get is that you are telling me that I have believed in a myth and a mythological savior for 30 years. So its not enough that you "outgrew your childhood beliefs" as you and others so smugly say. (Smug because it implies that you are better or smarter than I am)
You are so sure that you (and your peanut gallery support group) are wiser than I am that you tell me things like "you never listen to what *we* told you and keep repeating yourself time after time after time". Do you have any idea how psychologically hurtful that sort of stuff can be?
Do you get it yet Phat? I think i'm getting it. I'm no longer welcome here. Why should I keep going to a forum where nobody respects my intelligence *or* my beliefs and acts as if they are smarter than me?
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Phat Member Posts: 18339 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Whose are they then? I was speaking to you symbolically as a human.
Only humans take credit for natural laws that existed before humans themselves did. I don't know why I talk to you either. You call me names such as hateful, racist, ignorant, and vile and disgusting. Apparently one has to convert into being a progressive secular humanist before they are given any respect around here. This morning I realize that I am seeking respect from the wrong people. Maybe I need a break.
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Phat Member Posts: 18339 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Do you really expect us to stop trying to correct your errors? That goes both ways. I do need a break though.
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Phat Member Posts: 18339 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
GDR writes: As Christians we are called to be good stewards of the planet and all life on it. AZPagan Nature Boy writes: If God in any way knows and knew the future before it happened, He KNEW we would fail. The whole reason He allowed us to choose to try is because He knew we wanted it that way. Nobody can accuse Him of being evil due to His foreknowledge. The stewardship failed. Seems the influence of that "still small voice" of your god failed all creation yet again. If you believe this "still small voice" guides humanity then you believe it guided us right off a damn cliff. Not the most pleasant of gods. Your planet will get wrecked further. Famines and floods. The whole nine yards. And its wrong for end-timers to simply give up and, as dwise1 says, ignore polishing the brass on a sinking ship. We are judged by how much and how hard we try (in the grand scheme of things) and according to the story Jesus and the Saints return just before we make ourselves extinct. Keep trying, nature boy.
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