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Author Topic:   ChatGPT
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 61 of 152 (910694)
05-06-2023 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Percy
05-05-2023 8:24 AM


Re: Bringing AI Specific Conversation Over Here
Percy writes:
A hands-off approach would seem to favor government keeping its hands off women's bodies. Is that your position?
I do not favor legislating morality such as a mandatory abortion ban(which I oppose)
I do not believe in the legislation of rights for an unborn child if they override the guardianship of the Mother.Whats wrong with having the Mother (and Father, if applicable) take full responsibility for the child until as far along as age 5? Only if they cannot handle the responsibility and give the state reasonable written notice can and should the state then take over. (or in the event of abandonment.)
The parents should have primary legal and moral responsibility unless found incompetent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Percy, posted 05-05-2023 8:24 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Percy, posted 05-06-2023 7:20 AM Phat has replied
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 62 of 152 (910696)
05-06-2023 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Phat
05-06-2023 1:53 AM


Re: Bringing AI Specific Conversation Over Here
A hands-off approach would seem to favor government allowing teachers to choose freely among pronouns and not have to ignore that Abby has two daddies. Is that your position?
Here's what ChatGPT said when I asked, "Should teachers answer questions about children who have two mommies or daddies?"
ChatGPT:
As an AI language model, I can provide you with an opinion on this matter. Whether teachers should answer questions about children who have two mommies or daddies depends on the context and the age appropriateness of the question. However, promoting inclusivity, diversity, and respect for different family structures is generally considered beneficial for creating an inclusive learning environment.
If a student asks a question related to same-sex parents or diverse family structures, it is important for teachers to provide age-appropriate and factual information in a respectful and inclusive manner. This can help foster understanding, empathy, and respect among students.
Teachers can approach such questions by emphasizing that families come in different shapes and sizes, and that what matters most is the love and care provided by parents or caregivers, rather than their gender or number. Encouraging open dialogue, respect for differences, and teaching about diversity and inclusivity can help create a positive and supportive classroom environment for all students.
It's also important for teachers to be aware of and sensitive to the cultural and religious backgrounds of their students and their families. While promoting inclusivity, teachers should also respect the values and beliefs of different communities, ensuring a balanced approach that considers the diverse perspectives within the classroom.
Ultimately, it is up to individual schools and educators to determine how they address these topics within their specific educational frameworks and guidelines.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 05-06-2023 1:53 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Phat, posted 05-06-2023 12:39 PM Percy has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 63 of 152 (910701)
05-06-2023 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Percy
05-06-2023 7:20 AM


Re: Bringing AI Specific Conversation Over Here
As a Christian, I believe in separation of church and state in legal matters, I do not believe that legal means secular only. Just as parents have the primary responsibility of raising, training, and educating their kids until ages of accountability, the State has the responsibility to allow a family to develop within the parameters of their own faith. The State should never have as its goal any sort of moral,spiritual, or ethical agenda that supersedes a families chosen beliefs.
According to what you wrote, ChatGPT seems to agree.
ChatGPT writes:
It's also important for teachers to be aware of and sensitive to the cultural and religious backgrounds of their students and their families. While promoting inclusivity, teachers should also respect the values and beliefs of different communities, ensuring a balanced approach that considers the diverse perspectives within the classroom.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Percy, posted 05-06-2023 7:20 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Percy, posted 05-08-2023 7:11 AM Phat has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(2)
Message 64 of 152 (910704)
05-06-2023 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Phat
05-06-2023 1:53 AM


Re: Bringing up children
Phat posits:
The parents should have primary legal and moral responsibility unless found incompetent.
While this sounds good, it's not. Most parents will bring up their children to believe in the same shit they do,
perpetuating the horror of religion and it's harmful side shows, such as Racism, Misogyny, Sexism and the like.
But it is also scary to imagine a committee of some chosen people deciding what is best for children, so here we are.
Imagine the Branch Davidians...or other weirder cults....
Who decides who is incompetent? "Me! Me! Us!" and here we are.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 05-06-2023 1:53 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
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Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 65 of 152 (910711)
05-08-2023 7:03 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by xongsmith
05-06-2023 2:51 PM


Re: Bringing up children
And here we are in a world where U.S. Christians kill their children with exorcisms and medical neglect, and poison the survivors' minds with religious and racial hate, all in the name of parental rights -- oh, and in Jesus' name, too, amen. I wonder if those would fall under Phat's umbrella of "unless they are ruled incompetent."
Philip Larkin, that most dyspeptic of 20th century poets, had deep thoughts about parents and kids:
This Be The Verse
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.
- Philip Larkin (1922-1985)

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Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 66 of 152 (910712)
05-08-2023 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Phat
05-06-2023 12:39 PM


Re: Bringing AI Specific Conversation Over Here
As a Christian, how do you feel about the plight of those on our southern border trying desperately to enter our county after fleeing poverty or threats to life? Here's ChatGPT's answer:
ChatGPT:
The issue of migrants at the southern border is complex and multifaceted, and there are differing opinions on the appropriate stance the United States should take. It is important to approach the topic with empathy, respect for human rights, and a consideration of both domestic and international obligations.
One perspective is that the United States should prioritize compassion and provide support to migrants fleeing poverty and threats to their lives. This viewpoint emphasizes the principles of humanitarianism and the obligation to protect vulnerable individuals. Advocates argue that the United States, as a prosperous nation with a history of immigration, should provide opportunities for those seeking safety and a better life. This may involve offering asylum to those who qualify under international and domestic laws, ensuring humane treatment, and working toward comprehensive immigration reforms that address the root causes of migration.
On the other hand, some argue for stricter immigration enforcement and border security measures. They believe that maintaining the integrity of immigration laws and securing the border is essential for national security, economic stability, and the rule of law. Advocates of this perspective may argue for more stringent immigration policies, including increased border enforcement, streamlined asylum processes, and discouraging irregular migration to protect domestic resources and prioritize legal immigration channels.
Finding a balanced approach is often challenging. It is important to consider addressing the root causes of migration, such as poverty, violence, and lack of opportunities in the migrants' home countries. Collaborative efforts with neighboring countries and international organizations can help create regional solutions and alleviate the conditions that drive migration.
Public policy discussions and decisions on this issue involve considerations of national interests, human rights, economic impacts, and social factors. It is crucial to engage in informed and constructive dialogue to work towards comprehensive immigration policies that uphold both the values of the United States and the well-being of migrants.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Phat, posted 05-06-2023 12:39 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by xongsmith, posted 05-08-2023 2:54 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 67 of 152 (910715)
05-08-2023 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Percy
05-08-2023 7:11 AM


Re: Bringing AI Specific Conversation Over Here
that's kind of the namby-pamby kind of a one-size-fits-all answer you would expect from a collection of articles amassed over the internet.
don't offend anyone!. oh well. thanks, Percy.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Percy, posted 05-08-2023 7:11 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9533
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 68 of 152 (910720)
05-08-2023 6:07 PM


I've seen a few of these now. The response has been described as a trained undergraduate answer; keen to provide both sides of the conventional arguments without forming a view or providing new thoughts.
I remember discussing my first essay with my tutor at Cambridge about my mark of 73%. 75% was the mark required for a distinction. I asked her what I had to do to get the extra 2%. She said the most cruel thing a woman has ever said to me:
"You have to say something original."

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 69 of 152 (910809)
05-16-2023 6:47 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Omnivorous
05-08-2023 7:03 AM


Re: Bringing up children
And I suppose that the progressive alternative answer is that the village has more of a mandate and responsibility to raise the child than do the parents. Scary.
Getting back to AI, Tristan Harris and Aza Raskin talked about AI in a transcript, found here.
The AI Dilemma
What do we propose the "Village" (Progressives) do to restrain AI from messing with the 2024 elections? You old codgers are viewing AI from an ancient lens. As Tristan Harris says, GPT4 is already at the level of a healthy adult, one year after being at the level of a 4-year-old child. Unplug it indeed!
Our world is changing at the speed of light. None of you appear versed enough to understand the implications! (Not that I am either)
Another powerful episode was Synthetic Humanity: AI & What’s At Stake
Some excerpts from this transcript.
quote:
It may seem like the rise of artificial intelligence, and increasingly powerful large language models you may have heard of, is moving really fast… and it IS.
But what’s coming next is when we enter synthetic relationships with AI that could come to feel just as real and important as our human relationships… And perhaps even more so.(...)This is a structural revolution that affects way more than text, art, or even Google search. There are huge benefits to humanity, and we’ll discuss some of those. But we also see that as companies race to develop the best synthetic relationships, we are setting ourselves up for a new generation of harms made exponentially worse by AI’s power to predict, mimic and persuade.
It’s obvious we need ways to steward these tools ethically. (...)We'll get into all that, but first, here's an example of how it works. This is from a technology called VALL-E, that's
V-A-L-L dash E, which can take the first few words of someone's normal speaking
voice and synthesize it into a completely different phrase that you never spoke...

The episode goes on to show how anyone's voice can be synthesized and mimicked, literally putting words in the mouth of that voice.
quote:
The thing that I want all listeners to have in their mind is first just to note the
difference between what happens in your mind when you call an AI a chatbot
versus calling it a synthetic relationship. Just that change starts to right size how
powerful this technology is. For as long as we call it chatbot, we're going to think
of it in our minds as a 1990s AOL chatbot thing that's not really that persuasive
and doesn't have transformative power over me. It can't change my mind,
change my views, change my political orientation, change how I feel about
myself. And that if everyone listening to this episode were to do one thing, it
would be to cross out every time you see the press use the word chatbot,
replace that in your mind with synthetic relationship.(...)
You and I spend so much time on a relatively simple
technology, which is social media. It's the ability to post some texts, post some
images, and have it go to some set of people with some ranking of how that
information gets shown, not that hard comparatively. And that has broken
society and caused democratic backsliding the whole thing. That was just when
technology sat between our relationships. That says nothing about how
powerful it's going to be when technology starts becoming some of our
relationships.
And grappling with that shift, that paradigmatic shift to technology
becoming relationships is, I think, the most important thing for us to be focusing
our attention on.

The transcript and/or the episode can be found here: Synthetic Humanity: AI And Whats At Stake
I know that some of you scoffed at the technology, but its here to stay and in my mind can and will fall into the wrong hands eventually. Am I being too pessimistic?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Omnivorous, posted 05-08-2023 7:03 AM Omnivorous has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 70 of 152 (910912)
05-25-2023 8:12 PM


AI and Belief
I had a pointed question for AI:
Phat:
Will Individual beliefs get recognized as a viable source of information in regards to data and truth claims?
Open AI:
The recognition of individual beliefs as a viable source of information in regards to data and truth claims depends on the context and the specific criteria used for determining the validity of information. In general, individual beliefs are subjective and may not be considered reliable sources of information when it comes to objective facts or scientific claims.
In fields such as science, where empirical evidence, rigorous testing, and peer review are essential, individual beliefs alone may not be sufficient to establish the truth or validity of a claim. Scientific knowledge is built on the foundation of systematic observation, experimentation, and consensus among experts in the field.
However, in certain areas where subjective experiences or personal perspectives are relevant, such as matters of personal opinion, values, or subjective interpretations of art and literature, individual beliefs can play a more significant role. For example, in fields like philosophy, ethics, or cultural studies, individual perspectives and beliefs are often considered valuable and can contribute to broader discussions.
It is important to note that the recognition of individual beliefs as a viable source of information should be balanced with critical thinking, scrutiny, and openness to alternative viewpoints. It is through rigorous examination and analysis of various sources of information, including empirical evidence, expert consensus, and diverse perspectives, that we can strive towards a more accurate understanding of the world.

Im not impressed!
If my belief is such that there is one source of truth and one truth, alternative viewpoints do nothing but obfuscate the issue.

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Theodoric, posted 05-26-2023 8:24 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 72 by Percy, posted 05-26-2023 8:25 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(3)
Message 71 of 152 (910924)
05-26-2023 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Phat
05-25-2023 8:12 PM


Re: AI and Belief
This happens when your beliefs are not based on any evidence and the evidence does not support your beliefs.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 05-25-2023 8:12 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 72 of 152 (910925)
05-26-2023 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Phat
05-25-2023 8:12 PM


Re: AI and Belief
Phat writes:
If my belief is such that there is one source of truth and one truth, alternative viewpoints do nothing but obfuscate the issue.
Cult leaders in particular are especially intolerant of viewpoints other than their own.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 05-25-2023 8:12 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 73 of 152 (911055)
06-06-2023 9:59 AM


ChatGPT's Impact on Software Help
I recently posted a question at StackOverflow asking how I might make MUI's DataGrid sortColumn() function work. I received one unhelpful answer, then these two comments were posted at the bottom from a site admin. This one:
At least three of your answers appear likely to have been written (entirely or partially) by AI (e.g., ChatGPT). Please be aware that posting of AI-generated content is banned here. If you used an AI tool to assist with any answer, I would encourage you to delete it.
And later this one:
quote:
Readers should review this answer carefully and critically, as AI-generated information often contains fundamental errors and misinformation. If you observe quality issues and/or have reason to believe that this answer was generated by AI, please leave feedback accordingly. The moderation team can use your help to identify quality issues.
I had actually already asked ChatGPT this question, and it was actually very helpful by telling me what sortColumn argument values were legal. I had guessed the proper values already but had been unable to confirm them despite a determined Internet search (documentation of new software technologies is very poor), so I couldn't be sure my problem wasn't that the argument values were incorrect. ChatGPT evidently does a more effective job than Google of scouring the Internet for information.
But ChatGPT was unable to tell me how to make sortColumn work, so I posted the question at StackOverflow. By the time I saw the admins comments two of the three answers he mentions had been deleted.
--Percy

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3947
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 74 of 152 (911315)
06-24-2023 7:10 PM


ChatGPT on public radio "This American Life"
The full episode:
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/...reetings-people-of-earth
The ChatGPT specific part:
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/...eople-of-earth/act-one-0
I have not been following the ChatGPT thing much, but I thought this presentation was quite interesting.
I listened to this on the radio. Podcast/download not yet available. To be available Sunday at 7:00 pm U.S. Central time.
Moose

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9533
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 75 of 152 (911319)
06-25-2023 3:17 AM


Just asked ChatGPT "what is 12345678 multiplied by 43?"
The product of 12345678 multiplied by 43 is 530,864,254.
I then asked it to regenerate the answer
12345678 multiplied by 43 equals 531,440,154
The correct answer according to Excel is 530,864,154
I don't think we have anything to worry about quite yet - unless we try to rely on it for actual answers.
I asked it again and it gave me the same wrong answers so I asked it why it routinely gives wrong answers to maths questions.
As an AI language model, I strive to provide accurate information and perform calculations correctly. However, I may occasionally make mistakes, just like humans do. These errors can arise due to various reasons, including the complexity of the calculation, potential inaccuracies in the training data, or occasional limitations in the model's understanding or processing of certain types of mathematical operations.
OpenAI, the organization behind ChatGPT, continuously works to improve the accuracy and reliability of AI models. Feedback from users like you helps in identifying and addressing any errors or issues. I appreciate your understanding and apologize for any inconvenience caused by any incorrect calculations. If you notice any specific errors, please let me know, and I'll do my best to assist you.
It seems to me that an AI that routinely gives wrong answers is more dangerous than one that doesn't.
It also has a very shallow knowledge of stuff - as soon as I ask it for details of stuff I really know about it collapses into generalisms.
It doesn't seem to be able to generate references to its information either so you can't check anything.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Percy, posted 06-26-2023 7:05 PM Tangle has not replied

  
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