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Author Topic:   Testing The Financial Apologists
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 264 of 328 (910423)
04-22-2023 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Theodoric
04-22-2023 12:20 PM


CNN also has an Agenda.
Maybe you should realize that the Left Wing has propaganda, lies, and an agenda all its own.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Theodoric, posted 04-22-2023 12:20 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 269 of 328 (910659)
05-03-2023 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by AZPaul3
04-28-2023 2:50 PM


Re: U.S. Debt Ceiling
Let me ask you something. Do you believe that there is any way that the US can or will EVER pay off the major portion of that debt? Should they? If not, how can you honestly believe that money gets its value solely from the people and that as much of "it" can be "created" as is needed?
Sounds downright Orwellian to me!
Tougher times are coming. The debt ceiling, however, is as you say...a manufactured crises.
The real crises will be when the majority of the world no longer trusts the US Dollar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by AZPaul3, posted 04-28-2023 2:50 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-03-2023 11:52 PM Phat has not replied
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 274 of 328 (910682)
05-05-2023 5:05 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by Theodoric
05-04-2023 8:50 AM


Re: U.S. Debt Ceiling
Do you know who holds the vast majority of US debt?
Yes. the Federal Reserve itself.
Krugman is a modern monetary theorist, which is not the final word.
The problem with you liberals is that you want the government to control the flow(and value) of money rather than the free market. Im not going to argue with you guys. We disagree. You think i'm stupid. I think you are all deluded.

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 276 of 328 (910746)
05-11-2023 6:45 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by Theodoric
05-04-2023 3:39 PM


Re: BRICS lol
Dont play with issues that you know nothing (or very little) about.
From your very same source: Vast China-Russia resources trade shifts to yuan from dollars in Ukraine fallout
Of course I'm no financial genius, but all I have to do is to read more than you do.
Most experts don't see it happening overnight or within the next year, but if you look 5 years ahead, you will see a dramatically different situation.
quote:
The US is severely dependent on currency printing. Every issue they encounter will always be solved by printing dollars and pouring them on top of it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Theodoric, posted 05-04-2023 3:39 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Theodoric, posted 05-11-2023 9:39 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 278 by Omnivorous, posted 05-11-2023 11:10 AM Phat has replied
 Message 286 by Theodoric, posted 05-12-2023 10:02 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 280 of 328 (910750)
05-11-2023 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Omnivorous
05-11-2023 11:10 AM


Gold Bugs and Political Thugs
Omni writes:
You work. I assume you save and invest. Do you hold 1 oz krugerrands in your mattress?
I can't afford to buy gold. I have very little, but I do not keep it around the house, despite living in a relatively safe neighborhood.
If we're 5 years from currency apocalypse, I assume you don't keep soon-to-be worthless, fictional paper in banks or investment funds.
Most sources whom I trust say that it wont likely be an outright collapse but, rather, a hyperinflationary (or perhaps even deflationary) scenario. The US dollar, despite its problems, remains the primary global reserve currency and is far ahead of its rivals. The entire issue is one of trust. If the world-at-large loses faith that the debt that they hold in treasuries and other assets cannot be repaid, the result will be a collective dumping of inflated US dollars back on our country.
Omni writes:
When I cruise right wing media (usually Sunday morning, when my small village's serene blend of sanctimony and hangover keep me calm), I see lots of gold: doomsayers saying it, show hosts hawking it, print ads for it sandwiched with survivalist gear.
Granted the idea takes on a conspiracy theorist fringe element, and my critics are right in that many shysters profit off of fear. That being said...
Patrick Bet David (himself worth 200 million...look it up) sums the situation up in this short video.
And just so you know, these videos are well made and explain the situation as well as any economics professor could. I know many will disagree, but the information is out there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Omnivorous, posted 05-11-2023 11:10 AM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Theodoric, posted 05-11-2023 3:25 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 283 by Omnivorous, posted 05-11-2023 3:32 PM Phat has replied
 Message 284 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-11-2023 6:51 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 281 of 328 (910751)
05-11-2023 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by Theodoric
05-11-2023 11:45 AM


If That Day Ever Comes
Theo writes:
I only want to see an economic collapse to see the look on the faces of the goldbugs when they realize they have no access to the precious metals they supposedly own and that the gold, silver and platinum they do possess is worthless in acquiring food and shelter.
If that day ever comes, I would like to see the look on the face of progressives when they realize how much of an idiot Joe Biden was (36% approval rating and dropping) when he spent all of this money on green new deals,shut down the US petroleum industry, and sanctioned Russia by using the US dollar as a weapon. You may even find Jesus during such a time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Theodoric, posted 05-11-2023 11:45 AM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 287 of 328 (910763)
05-12-2023 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by Omnivorous
05-11-2023 3:32 PM


Re: Gold Bugs and Political Thugs
Omni writes:
Do you save and invest in dollar-denominated funds and accounts?
Every asset is currently valued in terms of dollar denomination. Oil, for example is priced at XX$ per barrel. Gold is priced at XXXX$ per ounce. Historically, it has been this way globally since 1944. Between 1944 and 1971, The dollar was baked by gold. Due to deficits being created to fund the war in Viet Nam as well as LBJs Great Society pledge to help lift more of the poor out of poverty, suspicions grew that the US dollar was inflating relative to its gold backing. Since 1971, the US Dollar and virtually all currencies are no allowed to float.
One mistake that many of my critics make is that they see the dollar (as prime Global Reserve Currency) being the yardstick to set the value of every stock and commodity. This is no longer true.The Petro Dollar anchored Oil and the dollar whereas now the Petro Yuan is set to become an alternative standard.
Gold (and Oil, notably) set the value of any given currency. The people are at the mercy of commodities.

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 288 of 328 (910764)
05-12-2023 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Theodoric
05-12-2023 10:02 AM


Theo and Phat disagree on what makes an expert an expert
no it was from a random respondent in the comments section of one of the videos I watch. Certainly not an expert, according to your criteria.
Can you argue with the basic premise, however? (Without having to google Paul Krugman?) Sometimes the obvious is right in front of us. The US main export to the rest of the world in exchange for their goods is US Dollars.
Of course, you will make no conclusions without consulting an expert.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Theodoric, posted 05-12-2023 10:02 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by Theodoric, posted 05-12-2023 1:37 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 294 by Theodoric, posted 05-13-2023 4:12 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 296 of 328 (910788)
05-15-2023 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by Theodoric
05-13-2023 4:12 PM


Re: How do we pay for trade?
I'm talking about trade deficits. Do you think that a US Corporation, Company, or individual belong to the US Government? When we buy all of that cheap crap from China that fills our local Walmart's, what does China get from us? And to push the issue further, do we really want to give China our best brainpower?
You DO realize that China is now the sleeping giant. They copy from us, convince us that it is an equitable exchange, and in the while build up their military for the day they retake Taiwan, become capable of sinking any and all US Carriers, all the while their oppressed people(yes, they are communists) wait patiently for the day when our system collapses while theirs finally is able to pay its middle class what they are worth.
Global competition is becoming more and more ruthless as the finite resources of this planet are up for grabs. As for your comment that the gold was inadequate to back the dollar, the gold at that time was worth $35.00-$50.00 an ounce. FDR raised the price from $20.00 to $35.00. Why couldnt Nixon have raised the price to reflect the times we were in? (Oh wait....they did. Gerald Ford made it legal to own gold again in 2004 and the price reached $800.00+ for a short time. Meanwhile the fiat currencies of the world all floated relative to the value of the dollar. Those days are nearly over. You guys can crow all you want about how, under Biden, the US dollar is strong, but im here to tell you that it is a paper tiger. And don't whine and blame the GOP for holding the debt ceiling hostage. They simply want to remind everybody that you cant borrow forever. The current administration is playing an international game of politics with the US Dollar that may backfire right in their face.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by Theodoric, posted 05-13-2023 4:12 PM Theodoric has replied

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 Message 301 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-15-2023 10:37 AM Phat has replied
 Message 302 by Theodoric, posted 05-15-2023 12:31 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 314 by Theodoric, posted 05-20-2023 7:41 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 297 of 328 (910789)
05-15-2023 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 295 by Percy
05-15-2023 7:23 AM


Re: More gibberish from Phat
Percy:
Phat has no idea what he doesn't know and has the kind of full confidence bred by ignorance.
Thanks for your vote of confidence! I admit to being ignorant about a lot of things, but I find no dishonor in speculation. You guys are the scared ones in that you run around seeking a real expert to reassure you that the sky is not falling and neither is the economy. Good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by Percy, posted 05-15-2023 7:23 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 303 of 328 (910799)
05-15-2023 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 301 by Tanypteryx
05-15-2023 10:37 AM


Re: How do we pay for trade?
What do you mean "they"? We ALL pay for it. Granted you have an ideological argument that those tax cuts were wrong, but the other side will chide your side for dumping the oil and gas industry and spending trillions on green energy too quickly...all the while funding a war in Ukraine. Both sides spend money. Thats the bottom line. The debt needs to stop increasing. Once the rest of the world catches on that they won't get paid back, the Dollar is toast.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-15-2023 10:37 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-15-2023 4:30 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 308 of 328 (910815)
05-16-2023 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 307 by Theodoric
05-16-2023 9:51 AM


Re: Some Genuine News About the Dollar as the Global Currency
I dont trust Tic Tok.
Remember when jar used to talk about Source vs Content. Its the content of a message that is important...not so much the source. If the content is sound, I don't care whether Peter Schiff, Ray Dalio, or Paul Krugman said it. I care about the rationality of it.
And I know bullshit from likely wisdom.
Granted I tend to trust the Washington Post or the New York Times more than I do YouTube, but again, I evaluate the content.
Go on listening and believing what you choose to listen to and believe in.
You think im off my rocker and my meds, so im not going to waste much time with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by Theodoric, posted 05-16-2023 9:51 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 309 by Theodoric, posted 05-16-2023 11:14 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 310 of 328 (910817)
05-16-2023 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 305 by xongsmith
05-16-2023 7:53 AM


The Elephant In The Room
Elephants never forget. Donkeys have been known to make an ass of themselves, but the press seldom reports it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by xongsmith, posted 05-16-2023 7:53 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 311 of 328 (910818)
05-16-2023 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 309 by Theodoric
05-16-2023 11:14 AM


Who Do We Trust?
No, if anything it exposes my stubbornness. I know I wont change your mind, and dont have the time or energy to go to a lot of effort simply to make an obvious point. Go listen to your experts. I listen to many of them too, but I don't trust some of them simply because they have a title or a degree.
In the end, its all a matter of trust.

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 316 of 328 (911361)
06-28-2023 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 315 by Theodoric
06-28-2023 9:02 PM


Re: Phat wrong again?
Well you can thank the Republicans for keeping our military strong and updated, just in case another wannabe superpower tries to take the US out. In fact, the biggest danger for the US is implosion from within.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 317 by Theodoric, posted 06-28-2023 9:18 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
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