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Author Topic:   COVID vaccine works - we're saved!
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1047 of 1110 (910509)
04-25-2023 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1042 by Percy
04-25-2023 5:29 PM


Re: The Right to Spread Disease
Kleinman:
The power that Fauci has was used extremely poorly. He misled Biden about vaccines and Fauci never corrected his blunder which any third-year medical student could understand was a blunder.
...
Fauci has not corrected his blunder. And then Fauci is confused by the psychodynamics of a large part of the population.
Percy:
Repeating mistaken information over and over doesn't make it any less mistaken.

Maybe Biden got the wrong information about vaccinations from Cornpop?
Kleinman:
If you don't understand the effects of comorbidities on a superimposed respiratory infection, you won't ever understand this. What happened with all the expert advisors that Cuomo had? Didn't any of his expert advisors understand that there might be a problem putting covid patients in with people with comorbidities?
Percy:
Yes, Kleinman, we know. No one understands anything except you.

You have no evidence that a great many covid deaths were of people with comorbidities who would have died within 2 to 3 years anyway. You'll just have to wait for the data on excess deaths.​

Wasn't the US Olympic team staying at a New York nursing home when hit by covid?
Kleinman:
Explain why the yellow line is labeled "Counties with a mandate" and that line starts at the same time as the maroon line.
Percy:
The yellow line represents those counties that adopted a mandate on July 1. The yellow line prior to July 1 is for the exact same counties as after July 1.

I see, the rest of the counties in yellow before July were yellow because they were mellow.
Kleinman:
And why is the yellow line higher than the maroon line from before July until almost October?
Percy:
You asked this once already and the answer hasn't changed. There's not enough data in the graph to answer that question, but one possible answer is that they're denser more urban counties where spread is faster.

A question you didn't ask was about the maroon line's sudden peak in the May/June timeframe. There's not enough data to answer that question, either.

But Trends in County-Level COVID-19 Incidence in Counties With and Without a Mask Mandate — Kansas, June 1–August 23, 2020 | MMWR tells us that as on July 1, 2020, 24 Kansas counties adopted mask mandates and 81 did not. Those 24 counties accounted for 67.3% of the Kansas population, and 6 of them representing 25% of the state's population were metropolitan. This means my surmise that the counties with mask mandates tended to be more urban was correct. The article also stated that counties with mask mandates were also more likely to adopt other measures, such as limits of gatherings and the occupancy limits for restaurants.

That's a great fish story. You got anything else?
Kleinman:
WHy don't you read that quote in context? Do you think you can make society generous by writing a law? You are very naive.
Percy:
Healthcare was the context, not generosity, but if that's why you said it then fine. The question remains, what do you think society's goals should be regarding healthcare?

Percy, I'm going to tell you a secret but you have to promise you won't tell anyone else. Are you ready? It costs money to provide health care. Now keep it under your hat.
Kleinman:
Why are you so afraid that somebody might say something that counters your naive thinking?
Percy:
What have you got against staying on topic?

Vaccines cost money too.
Kleinman:
Hasn't anyone explained the sympathetic nervous system to you?
Percy:
The actual question was that if fear of illness renders drug company profits inappropriate, then doesn't fear of guns render gun industry profits inappropriate?

If you'd like to discuss gun control then you're in the wrong topic.

It's all about an appropriate response to fear. Some people panic, Percy.
Kleinman:
Sure, I check things out. I've learned that so-called experts don't always get it right.
Percy:
And yet all you're able to do is cast unsupported aspersions without ever backing them up with actual data.

I assure you that my aspersions are very well supported.
Kleinman:
It would never enter your mind that corrupted people would work to hide the data that reveals their corruption. You are naive.
Percy:
That's the most common quality of conspiracy theories: unverifiability. For conspiracy theorists, lack of evidence is proof something is true.

You will just have to wait for the data. It will come about at the same time as the data for comorbidities and their effect on death rates due to covid.
Percy:
Yes. And your point is?
Kleinman:
Has anyone died with coronavirus and also had comorbidities before the covid episode?
Percy:
That's not a point, that's a question. Do you have a point?


It's a pointed question. You'll have to wait until the data comes in.
Kleinman:
You still haven't posted his quote. But that's your modus operandi. You post a quote from someone that doesn't say what Scott Jensen said, and that's enough for you.
Percy:
You're the only one talking about a quote. I did post an excerpt from a Fox News item saying Jensen was banned from TikTok for "spreading misinformation on COVID-19 guidelines."

So now you are getting your expert advice from TikTok. When are you going to ask Opus for advice?
Kleinman:
Are you really that naive that people do things to influence you.
Percy:
You're still replying to things only you said. You have this strange habit of claiming people believe things they've never said and then asking or commenting about it. You're basically having a conversation with yourself.

Do you really believe that someone else should pay for your covid booster?
Kleinman:
Cuomo prevented people from making decisions that could have prevented thousands of deaths no matter how you want to spin it.
Percy:
There's no evidence for that, either. What we do know is that Cuomo prevented nursing homes from including covid status as a part of making admission decisions, and that he hid the data about nursing home covid deaths. According to New York COVID-19 nursing home scandal - Wikipedia, the Cuomo administration purposefully omitted 9250 elderly covid deaths from a state health department report. I was unable to find how many of those deaths were determined to be due to the Cuomo policy.

You seem to believe that Cuomo's grave misconduct means you can just make up other stuff. But what Cuomo actually did was bad enough all by itself (don't forget the sexual harassment). There's no need to make stuff up.

Now Percy thinks that no one died with covid in New York nursing homes. Don't you ever read the newspapers beside the funny page with Opus?
Kleinman:
You hear what you want to hear. You are ripe to get a booster for the booster. Does that make you saved twice over?
Percy:
Spoken like a true anti-vaxxer.

Why do you think you need a booster for a booster?
Kleinman:
Haven't you figured out yet that both vaccinated and un-vaccinated people can spread the virus? We should lock everyone up in solitary confinement. That would solve the problem.
...
Don't you know that electric cars will save the planet?
...
Oh, pardon me, I didn't know that bringing up the laws of physics, mathematics, and experimental and empirical evidence was misbehaving. I'll have to learn that reptiles evolve into birds and fish evolve into mammals and say, "Everybody knows that" because that is how biologists practice science.
Percy:
You are still responding to things only you said. I hope you're enjoying the conversation with yourself.

Maybe you can get a solar-powered booster?
Kleinman:
...and scream about global warming and the sea level rising while Obama buys a house on the beach.
Percy:
The elevation of the house itself is only 8 feet. On the surface it doesn't seem like a prudent purchase, but I don't know any of the weather related history.
Kleinman:
It's a typical example of "do as I say, not as I do".
Percy:
Why don't you quote Obama telling people not to buy beach property? As I said, it doesn't seem like a prudent purchase. It's well known in these parts that Martha's Vineyard will likely suffer severe impacts from climate change, some think sooner rather than later.



From Obama's 2015 State of the Union:
Obama's 2015 State of the Union address – full text | State of the Union address | The Guardian
And the best scientists in the world are all telling us that our activities are changing the climate, and if we don’t act forcefully, we’ll continue to see rising oceans, longer, hotter heat waves, dangerous droughts and floods, and massive disruptions that can trigger greater migration and conflict and hunger around the globe.
It is impressive that the former president is sacrificing himself for society by buying a beachfront home in Martha's Vineyard. Few have done such a valiant deed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1042 by Percy, posted 04-25-2023 5:29 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1048 of 1110 (910510)
04-25-2023 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1043 by xongsmith
04-25-2023 5:53 PM


Re: The Right to Kick Off Assholes
xongsmith:
Percy - would you please kick this Asshole off EvC, somewhere way out beyond Voyager I, immediately?

I don't think anyone else here wants his ass shitting all over your excellent discussion board anymore.

Or let's take a poll?
I'm normally not in favor of any kind of censorship, but in this case...

PUT ME DOWN for it.
Why xongsmith, are you tired of making fun of me so soon?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1043 by xongsmith, posted 04-25-2023 5:53 PM xongsmith has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1051 of 1110 (910513)
04-25-2023 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1044 by AZPaul3
04-25-2023 6:37 PM


Re: The Right to Kick Off Assholes
AZPaul3:
Well ... I like watching Percy play with his toy.
Percy is very good at playing, debating, that's another story.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1044 by AZPaul3, posted 04-25-2023 6:37 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1052 of 1110 (910514)
04-25-2023 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1050 by Percy
04-25-2023 7:17 PM


Re: Dr. Fauci Speaks
Kleinman:
Whatever
Percy:
I think what you meant was, "Pardon me, my mistake."

No, I meant "Whatever".
Kleinman:
This incorrect notion came from somewhere. Joe Biden made the claim. Where do you think Joe Biden gets his expert advice?
Percy:
For the third time, I think Biden got it wrong all by himself. For some reason you keep rehashing this.

So you don't think he gets his expert medical advice from Cornpop?
Percy:
I don't understand why anti-vaxxers like you and Jensen try to disguise the fact that you're anti-vaxxers.
Kleinman:
Percy is an expert in vaccines.
Percy:
Why not just be truthful about your position? It's not like you're fooling anyone.


Why would I try to fool you? You are the Googlemeister.
Kleinman:
Try to explain how comorbidities affect the data for the death rate from covid.
Percy:
You are very repetitive. Does the link I provided have the data you want?

You will have to post a quote from the link. I like it when you post quotes, they are so informative. Do you have any more graphs? Try to find some without white backgrounds and yellow lines. They are so hard for xongsmith to see.
Kleinman:
Go ahead, take whatever advice Fauci has to offer.
Percy:
Again, this is just you talking to yourself.

Do you know that Fauci was Biden's chief medical advisor 2021-22?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1050 by Percy, posted 04-25-2023 7:17 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1054 of 1110 (910516)
04-25-2023 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1049 by Tanypteryx
04-25-2023 7:17 PM


Re: Excess Mortality
Percy:
Again, I posted no such graph. If you're really so sure I did then it should be easy for you to find.
Tanypteryx:
I think he's referring to your Kansas graph, maybe?

Don't tell Percy, let it be a surprise.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1049 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-25-2023 7:17 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1056 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-25-2023 8:08 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1055 of 1110 (910517)
04-25-2023 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1053 by Percy
04-25-2023 7:42 PM


Re: Excess Mortality
Tanypteryx:
I think he's referring to your Kansas graph, maybe?
Percy:
Could be, since he doesn't seem to understand it, not realizing that the yellow line is continuous and represents the same 24 counties all the way from its origin to the right hand side. The only thing that changes is that on July 1 those 24 counties opted-in on the state's mask mandate.

But if that's the graph he means then I still don't know how he's misinterpreting it. He's going to have to tell me.

Or if it's some other graph then if he tells me which graph he means and why he thinks it shows masks causing worse covid outcomes then I'll address it.


Were those 24 counties marooned on a desert island and could get any masks until July? Why did the two groups have different incidences of covid despite they both weren't wearing masks before July? You must have a good fish story to tell.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1053 by Percy, posted 04-25-2023 7:42 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1059 of 1110 (910521)
04-26-2023 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1056 by Tanypteryx
04-25-2023 8:08 PM


Re: Excess Mortality
Kleinman:
Don't tell Percy, let it be a surprise.
Tanypteryx:
Your promotion of unclear communications is puzzling.

It is too bad that you find mathematics so unclear.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1056 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-25-2023 8:08 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1063 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-26-2023 10:15 AM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1060 of 1110 (910522)
04-26-2023 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1057 by Tangle
04-26-2023 3:24 AM


Re: The Right to Kick Off Assholes
Tangle:
As far as I can tell, this particular troll is

a right-wing Christian fundamentalist
probably a creationist
probably a gun owner, definitely a gun supporter
an anti-vaxxer
a Republican, probably far right
a conspiracy theorist
a serial forum killer
deluded about his understanding of evolution
unable to accept correction

In other words, he's got the full deck of loony-tune, nut-job cards. He's a poster-child for motivated thinking. It was interesting to watch him at work doing his schtick for a while, now he's just boring.

He needs moderating at least.
"a right-wing Christian fundamentalist", what is that?
"probably a creationist", if you want to believe that you are related to fecal bacteria, that's all right by me, but you certainly don't understand how descent with modification and adaptation works.
"probably a gun owner, definitely a gun supporter", so you don't believe in the right of self defense.
"an anti-vaxxer", now Tangle, take your medicine, it will save you.
"a Republican, probably far right" the only party affiliation I ever had was Democrat.
"a conspiracy theorist", Tangle is not skeptical about anything.
"a serial forum killer", I lure all those poorly trained biologists into my lair and then torture them with physics and mathematics.
"deluded about his understanding of evolution", yes, experiments of biological evolution like the Kishony and Lenski experiments really trigger my delusions. It is part of my devious plan to explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.
"unable to accept correction", Tangle's idea of correction is to go sit in the corner and say "reptiles evolve into birds and fish evolve into mammals" until I'm indoctrinated into his belief system. Shouldn't you add to your list that "he is incorrigible and refuses to have Tangle's herd mentality"?
Now Tangle thinks I'm boring and a nut-job and the brown-shirts need to be brought in. Do what you do best.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1057 by Tangle, posted 04-26-2023 3:24 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1062 by Tangle, posted 04-26-2023 9:41 AM Kleinman has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1061 of 1110 (910523)
04-26-2023 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1058 by Admin
04-26-2023 7:33 AM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Percy:
I have ceased my participation as Percy in this thread and will be initiating active moderation tomorrow afternoon. Please do not post messages that do not constructively contribute to the discussion, and certainly no messages that inhibit or stymie discussion.
Percy, you look much more intimidating as Catbert than Opus. Out of fear, I paste the following link and quote:
People with Certain Medical Conditions | CDC
Based on the current evidence, a person with any of the conditions listed below is more likely to get very sick from COVID-19. This means that a person with one or more of these conditions who gets very sick from COVID-19 (has severe illness from COVID-19) is more likely to:
  • Be hospitalized
  • Need intensive care
  • Require a ventilator to help them breathe
  • Die
In addition:
Older adults are at highest risk of getting very sick from COVID-19. More than 81% of COVID-19 deaths occur in people over age 65. The number of deaths among people over age 65 is 97 times higher than the number of deaths among people ages 18-29 years.
If you need me to quote the list of medical conditions that complicate covid, I'll list them for you but they are easy to find on that page.
Are these findings something new to the medical field?
Check out this link and quote and compare it with the findings for covid:
People at Higher Risk of Flu Complications | CDC
Following is a list of all the health and age factors that are known to increase a person’s risk of getting serious flu complications:
  • Adults 65 years and older
  • Children younger than 2 years old1
  • Asthma
  • Neurologic and neurodevelopment conditions
  • Blood disorders (such as sickle cell disease)
  • Chronic lung disease (such as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease [COPD] and cystic fibrosis)
  • Endocrine disorders (such as diabetes mellitus)
  • Heart disease (such as congenital heart disease, congestive heart failure and coronary artery disease)
  • Kidney diseases
  • Liver disorders
  • Metabolic disorders (such as inherited metabolic disorders and mitochondrial disorders)
  • People who are obese with a body mass index [BMI] of 40 or higher
  • People younger than 19 years old on long-term aspirin- or salicylate-containing medications.
  • People with a weakened immune system due to disease (such as people with HIV or AIDS, or some cancers such as leukemia) or medications (such as those receiving chemotherapy or radiation treatment for cancer, or persons with chronic conditions requiring chronic corticosteroids or other drugs that suppress the immune system)
  • People who have had a stroke
Other people at higher risk from flu:
  • Pregnant people and people up to 2 weeks after the end of pregnancy
  • People who live in nursing homes and other long-term care facilities
  • People from certain racial and ethnic minority groups are at increased risk for hospitalization with flu, including non-Hispanic Black persons, Hispanic or Latino persons, and American Indian or Alaska Native persons
  • 1 Although all children younger than 5 years old are considered at higher risk of serious flu complications, the highest risk is for those younger than 2 years old, with the highest hospitalization and death rates among infants younger than 6 months old.
  • Information on groups at higher risk from COVID-19 is available.
We certainly wouldn't want an administrator to wait for the data on comorbidities and covid, especially Catbert.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1058 by Admin, posted 04-26-2023 7:33 AM Admin has seen this message but not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1064 of 1110 (910526)
04-26-2023 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 999 by Tanypteryx
04-22-2023 3:02 PM


Re: The Right to Spread the GOD thing
Tamgle:
Admin will rightly declare this conversation off-topic shortly so just before he does, from your reply, the only statement of mine you deny is being a Republican. Even then you equivocated by declaring that you were once a Democrat. I view that as the same as me saying that I was once a Catholic.

Do you have a position on homosexuality, same sex marriage, abortion?
Tangle is having difficulty staying on topic. Of course, if he thinks that any of what he has written in his post has anything to do with covid vaccinations and spread of the disease, I think he should raise points that he thinks are valid. But he can't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 999 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-22-2023 3:02 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1066 by Tangle, posted 04-26-2023 11:46 AM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1065 of 1110 (910528)
04-26-2023 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1063 by Tanypteryx
04-26-2023 10:15 AM


Re: Excess Mortality
Kleinman:
It is too bad that you find mathematics so unclear.
Tanypteryx:
There was no math in the post I answered, only malice. I was commenting on your behavior.

So you think that mathematics has no place in graphs? Or don't you remember what you said in Message 1049.
Tanypteryx:
I think he's referring to your Kansas graph, maybe?
You even had a title on that post, Re: Excess Mortality. How do you want to do excess mortalities, fractions, percentages, frequencies,... they are all mathematical concepts, which you appear not to understand.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1063 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-26-2023 10:15 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1067 of 1110 (910532)
04-26-2023 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1066 by Tangle
04-26-2023 11:46 AM


Re: The Right to Spread the GOD thing
Tangle:
Ok, I'll update the list with homophobia and anti-abortion.

Cheers.
Tangle still has difficulty staying on topic. Why does Tangle think that we are all saved because of the covid vaccine? Maybe that will get Tangle back on topic, but I doubt it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1066 by Tangle, posted 04-26-2023 11:46 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1068 by Tangle, posted 04-26-2023 12:03 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1069 of 1110 (910534)
04-26-2023 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1068 by Tangle
04-26-2023 12:03 PM


Re: The Right to Spread the GOD thing
Tangle:
Sorry, missed a couple; was the elections stolen? What's your opinion of Fox News?
Tangle can't stay on the topic he started. Isn't he happy with this subject of the covid vaccine? Doesn't Tangle want to explain to us why we are all saved?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1068 by Tangle, posted 04-26-2023 12:03 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1070 by Tangle, posted 04-26-2023 1:25 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1071 of 1110 (910542)
04-26-2023 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1070 by Tangle
04-26-2023 1:25 PM


Re: The Right to Spread the GOD thing
Kleinman:
Tangle can't stay on the topic he started. Isn't he happy with this subject of the covid vaccine?
Tangle:
We're all just passing time now while Percy put's his Policeman's hat on. Do you want to answer my questions while we wait - was the election stolen? Are you a Fox News fan?

Tangle still can't stay on topic. He can't explain why we are all saved because of the covid vaccine. Maybe Tangle meant to say we are 90% saved? It seems like Tangle doesn't want to discuss the topic that he started. He would rather discuss any topic but this one. Why doesn't he start a discussion on any one of the subjects he is interested in but unrelated to the covid vaccine? He could respond to the post I made with links and quotes from the CDC on the effects of comorbidities and covid and influenza, but he isn't interested. Instead, Tangle makes posts unrelated to the topic under discussion to pass the time. Try harder Tangle, perhaps you can stay on topic, but I doubt it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1070 by Tangle, posted 04-26-2023 1:25 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1072 by Tangle, posted 04-26-2023 2:07 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1073 of 1110 (910545)
04-26-2023 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1072 by Tangle
04-26-2023 2:07 PM


Re: The Right to Spread the GOD thing
Tangle:
Ok, I'll put you down as someone who refuse to deny that he's Fox News fan that believes that the election was stolen. I'm happy to correct that if you'd like to comment further.
How many posts can Tangle make that are not on topic for a thread that he has started? Won't you explain how we are saved by the covid vaccine? Shouldn't you have said that we are 90% saved? Does the covid vaccine save us from your off-topic comments?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1072 by Tangle, posted 04-26-2023 2:07 PM Tangle has not replied

  
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