COVID vaccine works - we're saved!

Kleinman:

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Why don't you show us your education by proving that God doesn't exist?

xongsmith:

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You cannot prove a negative. Even you know that.
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How do you know I don't believe God exists?
I could be a Deist, for all you know.
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Do you have any objective peer-reviewed evidence God exists one way or the other?
There are whole threads here at EvC on Intelligent Design that are more appropriate channels to use.

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I should mention the reason I don't accept the Koran (Islam) as the true faith. If I understand Islam correctly, those believers think if their good deeds outweigh their bad deeds, they go to heaven. That's like saying that if I have a thousand gallons of pure water and add a teaspoon of raw sewage the water is still pure.I have two motives for studying evolution. The first is to understand how drug resistance occurs since this is a problem in my medical practice and throughout the field of medicine. The second is to test whether the theory of evolution refutes my belief in God. Is it really possible that life started in some primordial soup and through a process of descent with modification, we arrived? I didn't know the answer when I first studied this phenomenon but I did have the skills to mathematically model complex physical systems and have had extensive training and experience in thermodynamics. Once I gained some understanding of biological evolution, it became apparent that this type of evolutionary process is impossible, but I did learn how drug resistance evolves. It is only when I point out that universal common descent cannot occur because of the population size required that it drives biologists and atheists crazy. But that's what the mathematical, empirical, and experimental evidence shows. If physicians and farmers ever want to get a handle on antimicrobial drug resistance, herbicide resistance, pesticide resistance, and why cancer treatments fail, they will have to understand how descent with modification and adaptation works. Biologists are not doing their job.

Christians also believe that you can go to heaven by repenting and converting on your deathbed. So what?So no evidence from you.I would have thought that the single first organism would be a sign of God. Kind of like the Fine Structure Constant, without it's value being what it is, enabling life to emerge, would be another sign.Meh. Oh well. then. Remain willfully stoopid. It's OK.

xongsmith:

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Christians also believe that you can go to heaven by repenting and converting on your deathbed. So what?
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So no evidence from you.
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I would have thought that the single first organism would be a sign of God. Kind of like the Fine Structure Constant, without it's value being what it is, enabling life to emerge, would be another sign.
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Meh. Oh well. then. Remain willfully stoopid. It's OK.

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You can even do it like one of the thieves on his cross next to Jesus, but why wait?

Why do you think society should include goals like not suffering witches to live or stoning adulterers? So you're not yet prepared for this discussion. Why are you having so much trouble comprehending that no one here is arguing for this? Why do you think papers invalidate their conclusions by enumerating potential problems and issues that they were already aware of when they drew their conclusions? Why do you keep thinking people have proposed things that they haven't? Then why are you asking about arrests being made under a law that is no longer in effect? Why do you think masks and vaccinations do not reduce the spread and severity of respiratory pandemics? You're obviously having difficulty following the discussion. I recognize what you're referring to now. I didn't find the policy made under difficult circumstances while New York hospitals were overwhelmed of prohibiting nursing homes from discriminating on the basis of covid status anywhere near as egregious as then hiding the data. Thanks for the warning that you'll be soiling another thread soon.--Percy

Percy:

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What do you think society's goal should be?

Kleinman:

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Read the Bible and you can find out.

Percy:

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Why do you think society should include goals like not suffering witches to live or stoning adulterers?

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You seem to have gotten a very tiny bit out of the Bible. You missed the part where Jesus said, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her". And you still don't understand why STDs are so widespread in the world. If you want to take advice from a witch, that is your choice. Why don't you tell us what good ideas or explanations you have gotten from witches?

Kleinman:

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It is called preparation.

Percy:

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So you're not yet prepared for this discussion.

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Perhaps not. I like it when someone poses a challenging question or idea. It forces me to think. For example, my discussion with you about mask mandates forced me to understand with more precision why the Covid mask mandates did not produce the data that you expect. I'm not the only one that doesn't come to the battle fully prepared. Do you think that people should try and force their will on society when they aren't fully prepared?

Kleinman:

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If you can't tell us what you think the conditions are that someone should be confined for spreading an infectious disease, say so.

Percy:

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Why are you having so much trouble comprehending that no one here is arguing for this?

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Good intentions are not enough to force a policy on society.

Kleinman:

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Instead, you find a line in a paper that you think supports your viewpoint about masks when the same paper has paragraphs saying that there are confounding factors in the analysis.

Percy:

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Why do you think papers invalidate their conclusions by enumerating potential problems and issues that they were already aware of when they drew their conclusions?

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That's the point, Percy. The line that you pull from these papers is not a conclusion, otherwise, they would post the data to support that conclusion. Why the authors would put in such a line is open for debate.

Kleinman:

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I'm trying to get you to think about what you propose.

Percy:

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Why do you keep thinking people have proposed things that they haven't?

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For starters, do you think that people that proposed general mask mandates considered whether the public would wear appropriate masks in an effective manner? And providing an exemption for young children from wearing masks would nullify the effect of a general mask mandate?

Kleinman:

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Even here in California, they will lock up people with HIV if they have sex with their partner without informing them that they have HIV. So, what are your conditions?

Percy:

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Wasn't that the law that was changed a couple years ago?

Kleinman:

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Yes,...

Percy:

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Then why are you asking about arrests being made under a law that is no longer in effect?

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It is an example of good intentions being insufficient in writing a law. It doesn't remove the stigma from someone with HIV and it doesn't prevent an unknowing person from being injured.

Kleinman:

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I don't think you fully appreciate how complex the treatment and prevention of infectious diseases are. It is not always as simple as wearing a mask and getting a vaccination.

Percy:

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Why do you think masks and vaccinations do not reduce the spread and severity of respiratory pandemics?

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We can go around on this as much as you want. Do you think that vaccinations prevent the person from spreading the disease, and do you think that an inappropriate mask worn ineffectively will prevent that person from spreading the disease? Are you aware of the Sabin oral vaccines for polio? They use attenuated viruses to trigger the immune response. These viruses can spread through the population and by descent with modification can become serious disease-causing viruses.
Poliomyelitis

Kleinman:

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Since you don't seem to get the point, I'll repeat them again for you. People with weakened immune systems and comorbidities (heart disease, cancer, diabetes, asthma,...) are at much greater risk from diseases that might be considered mild. This should be obvious to you.

Percy:

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Of course it's obvious to me. I just said the same thing a few messages ago. It's probably obvious to everyone here because it's just common sense.

Kleinman:

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It is obvious to you now.

Percy:

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You're obviously having difficulty following the discussion.

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Point to the first time you wrote about this obvious point. You don't have to limit yourself to this thread.

Kleinman:

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I don't think you fully understand what Cuomo did.
Andrew Cuomo’s Report on Controversial Nursing Home Policy for COVID Patients Prompts More Controversy — ProPublica

Percy:

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I recognize what you're referring to now. I didn't find the policy made under difficult circumstances while New York hospitals were overwhelmed of prohibiting nursing homes from discriminating on the basis of covid status anywhere near as egregious as then hiding the data.

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Even the people of New York found Cuomo's decision-making capability lacking.

Kleinman:

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I noticed you had a thread and are a strong advocate for gun control.

Percy:

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Thanks for the warning that you'll be soiling another thread soon.

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I notice you didn't tell us whether you think that people have a right to self-defense. People do have a right to free medical care paid for by society according to you. Your display of generosity with other people's money is heartwarming.

Nullify? BULLSHIT. Many people did do it right and it made a difference. Sure, there were idiots who refused to comply, most notably led by the Asshole POTUS at the time who made a show of ripping his mask off on national TV. But there was a measurable positive impact, just as there is for vaccinations despite the evolutionary variants now beyond Omicron.It's an ongoing battle that needs encouragement, NOT detractors. Remember, this is about EDUCATION.
People don't like being told they have to go back to school, but they do have to go.Now, on to a point about your quoting Maggie Thatcher's infamous asshole view when you refer to Percy with IT IS NOT OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY!
IT IS OUR MONEY! ALL OF US TOGETHER.A civilization is a collection of people, all together, who make the collection civilized.Currently all civilized countries provide healthcare for all of their citizens.Since the United States does not do this, then, by definition, they are NOT yet civilized.

Wait? For a fictional character like some Tinkerbell to sprinkle some kind of magical dust over me?
I have better things to do.

Kleinman:

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For starters, do you think that people that proposed general mask mandates considered whether the public would wear appropriate masks in an effective manner? And providing an exemption for young children from wearing masks would nullify the effect of a general mask mandate?

xongsmith:

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Nullify? BULLSHIT. Many people did do it right and it made a difference. Sure, there were idiots who refused to comply, most notably led by the Asshole POTUS at the time who made a show of ripping his mask off on national TV. But there was a measurable positive impact, just as there is for vaccinations despite the evolutionary variants now beyond Omicron.
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It's an ongoing battle that needs encouragement, NOT detractors. Remember, this is about EDUCATION.
People don't like being told they have to go back to school, but they do have to go.
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Now, on to a point about your quoting Maggie Thatcher's infamous asshole view when you refer to Percy with

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Poor xongsmith, I've discouraged him.

Kleinman:

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Your display of generosity with other people's money is heartwarming.

xongsmith:

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IT IS NOT OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY!
IT IS OUR MONEY! ALL OF US TOGETHER.
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A civilization is a collection of people, all together, who make the collection civilized.
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Currently all civilized countries provide healthcare for all of their citizens.
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Since the United States does not do this, then, by definition, they are NOT yet civilized.

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I wasn't quoting Margaret Thatcher, but thanks for pointing out the similarity. She said the following.
Quote by Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventual...” Of course, xongsmith will now share his bank account number and pin number with all of us. And since xongsmith is so civilized, he has offered to pay for all of our medical bills.

Kleinman:

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You can even do it like one of the thieves on his cross next to Jesus, but why wait?

xongsmith:

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Wait? For a fictional character like some Tinkerbell to sprinkle some kind of magical dust over me?
I have better things to do.

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xongsmith will now present the evidence he has that Jesus was a fictional character.

Kleinman will now present evidence of the supernatural.

Again you are lying. Please do not make personal attacks against my wife. What she tells her patients and what she knows is irrelevant to this conversation. If you lie about her or cast aspersions to her ability and character again, I will be making a formal complaint with the admin.

Lies

Tanypteryx:

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Kleinman will now present evidence of the supernatural.

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Certainly, Tany, let's start with the creation of life. Of course, with your vast knowledge of the laws of physics, you will explain to us how it can happen by natural forces. You have done so well with your explanation of biological evolution including descent with modification and adaptation. Would you give us again your explanation for why it takes a billion replications for each adaptive mutation in the Kishony and Lenski experiments?

I guess you don't understand the word "supernatural." Hint, it's not physics.

Theodoric:

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Again you are lying. Please do not make personal attacks against my wife. What she tells her patients and what she knows is irrelevant to this conversation. If you lie about her or cast aspersions to her ability and character again, I will be making a formal complaint with the admin.

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Just because you can't tell us what your wife tells her patients when she starts antibiotics you think it is a personal attack?Complain however you want, formal or otherwise, you don't have much else to offer in this discussion.