COVID vaccine works - we're saved!

Kleinman:

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If some stranger moves into your home, you can't tell him to leave because he has a right to housing.

Percy:

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What makes you think there's a right to housing?

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Do you think society should be required to pay for someone elses healthcare but not their housing? You like to be generous, with other people's money.

Kleinman:

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Why don't you list for us the major factors that help prevent the spread of these diseases?

Percy:

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If you think it's germane to discussion, please list them for us.

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I'll list them for you if you can explain whether or not they need to be taken into account in any statistical analysis.

Kleinman:

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The nature of my questions should give you a hint that you aren't stating your position.

Percy:

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Your questions mostly imply I have opinions that I've never stated and that I do not hold. Your questions are of the "Are you still beating your wife" variety.

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I'm not asking you if you are still beating your wife, I'm asking you under what conditions someone should be confined if they have a contagious disease. I've given you my opinion on the specific conditions, but you haven't given those conditions.

Kleinman:

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Who should be locked up for engaging in activity that increases the risk of spreading a contagious disease?

Percy:

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And this question is a good example. I never advocated locking anyone up, so why are you asking me this? I said that balancing personal freedoms against public safety is a tough problem, that I have no answers for you, and I've said it several times now.

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Even here in California, they will lock up people with HIV if they have sex with their partner without informing them that they have HIV. So, what are your conditions?

Kleinman:

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...it shows that you don't know under which conditions what some consider a mild disease that is highly contagious can be serious to some people.

Percy:

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If you think those conditions would contribute to the discussion, go ahead and describe them for us.

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I've already given you those conditions and they were also given in the references I gave. Since you don't seem to get the point, I'll repeat them again for you. People with weakened immune systems and comorbidities (heart disease, cancer, diabetes, asthma,...) are at much greater risk from diseases that might be considered mild. This should be obvious to you. That's why Governor Cuomo from New York made a major blunder when he confined elderly people in rest homes and caused a large number of deaths from Covid.

Kleinman:

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I keep asking this because your answer is so vague. Where do you draw the line where you should confine someone?

Percy:

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I keep saying I have no answers for you. If you have answers please tell us.

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I've already given you many answers based on by experience. When it comes to infectious diseases, whatever you do, you must include close follow-up with the patient. You can't just say, "Take all your medicine" and not give the patient an idea of what should happen during treatment. Statistical data can be useful but if the data is inconclusive such as mask usage, you can't make hard and fast rules based on that data. And I've told you when someone should be confined with an infectious disease. If the person knows they have an infectious disease and still purposely engages in activities that can increase the risk of spreading that disease without others knowing it, lock that person up. If they don't know they have the infectious disease but engage in activities that spread the disease, this person should be notified to cease the activity but not be locked up. Your argument is that people should be required to wear masks. The problem with your argument is that you assume people will wear an effective mask in an appropriate manner. The data does not show this. This shows that people that insist on a general mask mandate have not prepared the public correctly and may well have given people a false sense of security and actually caused an increase in the spread of the disease.

What do you think society's goal should be? Why do you need me to explain anything before you list them? Are you telling us you don't understand how your questions are "Are you still beating your wife" style questions? If you already know the specific conditions, why do you need me to give them to you? Wasn't that the law that was changed a couple years ago? If you've already told us those conditions, why do you keep asking me what they are? Of course it's obvious to me. I just said the same thing a few messages ago. It's probably obvious to everyone here because it's just common sense. Why do you think it was Cuomo who confined them? Weren't they already there when covid started? What should have been done instead? Great. I guess that just about wraps it up, then.--Percy

Irrelevant to the topic.

SHITFUCK attacks Percy with more misinterpretations like: Jeezo man, you are fucking shit again! See, you forgot the important part where Percy argues that the people who are in a group of people who wear the masks correctly are more likely to get others to wear them correctly. Even in Message 908 Percy writes: Doesn't that imply that EDUCATION is the important factor?Now, as for your denial that you don't ask "when did you stop beating your wife" questions, what do you call this from your Message 920?

Kleinman:

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Do you think society should be required to pay for someone elses healthcare but not their housing? You like to be generous, with other people's money.

Percy:

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What do you think society's goal should be?

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Read the Bible and you can find out.

Kleinman:

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I'll list them for you if you can explain whether or not they need to be taken into account in any statistical analysis.

Percy:

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Why do you need me to explain anything before you list them?

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It is called preparation. You put the cart before the horse. You show evidence that masks work and then jump to the conclusion that a general mandate should work but you don't consider whether people wear an effective mask appropriately. Do you think you could scrub in for a surgery without any instruction and do it properly? You have to learn how to wash your hands appropriately, learn how to put on sterile gloves in a sterile manner, how a sterile gown must be put on to avoid contamination, how to put on an effective mask in an appropriate manner, and so on. And now you want to prevent the transmission of an airborne disease with a mask alone, without any instruction at all to the population. It shouldn't surprise you that the data doesn't show that this kind of policy has been effective.

Kleinman:

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I'm not asking you if you are still beating your wife, I'm asking you under what conditions someone should be confined if they have a contagious disease.

Percy:

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Are you telling us you don't understand how your questions are "Are you still beating your wife" style questions?

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If you can't tell us what you think the conditions are that someone should be confined for spreading an infectious disease, say so. Instead, you find a line in a paper that you think supports your viewpoint about masks when the same paper has paragraphs saying that there are confounding factors in the analysis.

Kleinman:

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I've given you my opinion on the specific conditions, but you haven't given those conditions.

Percy:

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If you already know the specific conditions, why do you need me to give them to you?

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I'm trying to get you to think about what you propose.

Kleinman:

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Even here in California, they will lock up people with HIV if they have sex with their partner without informing them that they have HIV. So, what are your conditions?

Percy:

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Wasn't that the law that was changed a couple years ago?

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Yes, it was appropriately changed. Even California politicians realize how bad the original law was. What sense was in that law that removed all legal consequences from someone with HIV if they have sex with a partner and don't tell them beforehand that they have HIV?

Kleinman:

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I've already given you those conditions and they were also given in the references I gave.

Percy:

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If you've already told us those conditions, why do you keep asking me what they are?

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To see whether you understand. I don't think you fully appreciate how complex the treatment and prevention of infectious diseases are. It is not always as simple as wearing a mask and getting a vaccination.

Kleinman:

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Since you don't seem to get the point, I'll repeat them again for you. People with weakened immune systems and comorbidities (heart disease, cancer, diabetes, asthma,...) are at much greater risk from diseases that might be considered mild. This should be obvious to you.

Percy:

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Of course it's obvious to me. I just said the same thing a few messages ago. It's probably obvious to everyone here because it's just common sense.

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It is obvious to you now.

Kleinman:

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That's why Governor Cuomo from New York made a major blunder when he confined elderly people in rest homes and caused a large number of deaths from Covid.

Percy:

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Why do you think it was Cuomo who confined them? Weren't they already there when covid started? What should have been done instead?

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I don't think you fully understand what Cuomo did.
Andrew Cuomo’s Report on Controversial Nursing Home Policy for COVID Patients Prompts More Controversy — ProPublica And Cuomo ordered people hospitalized with Covid be sent to nursing homes.

Kleinman:

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I've already given you many answers based on by experience.

Percy:

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Great. I guess that just about wraps it up, then.

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That's fine. I noticed you had a thread and are a strong advocate for gun control. Since you think that society is obligated to pay for people's health care, I was wondering if you think people have a right of self-defense?

Theodoric:

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Irrelevant to the topic.

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That's as good an excuse as any for your wife not being able to explain what her patients should do when she starts them on antibiotics. You probably shouldn't bring up that your wife is a physician if she doesn't know this basic medical principle.

Kleinman:

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The problem with your (Percy's) argument is that you (Percy) assume people will wear an effective mask in an appropriate manner.

xongsmith:

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Jeezo man, you are fucking shit again! See, you forgot the important part where Percy argues that the people who are in a group of people who wear the masks correctly are more likely to get others to wear them correctly. Even in Message 908 Percy writes:

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xongsmith is going to start an organization called the Society for the Correct Wearing of Masks. He will do that right after he gives us proof that God doesn't exist, why vaccines aren't 100% effective which means he can explain descent with modification and adaptation, the Kishony and Lenski biological evolutionary experiments, and why it takes a billion reproductions for each adaptive mutation in the Kishony and Lenski experiments.

SHITFUCKER suggests: which one? the old testament or the new testament? the Torah? the Koran? the Bhagavad Gita? the King James?they all say different things depending on how the writers at the time wanted to control their flock.

Kleinman:

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Read the Bible and you can find out.

xongsmith:

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which one? the old testament or the new testament? the Torah? the Koran? the Bhagavad Gita? the King James?
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they all say different things depending on how the writers at the time wanted to control their flock.

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The Torah is the first five books of the old testament. The old testament and new testament together form the Bible. Read any of the Torah, old testament, or new testament and you can find out.What makes you think that something isn't controlling you right now?

SHITFUCKER continues to LIE: As even I showed, Percy has abundantly demonstrated that EDUCATION is the important factor. You are a SHITFUCKER for lying. Or you are illiterate and cannot read.

what is the difference between the Catholic Bible and the Protestant Bible? Why are the books of Matthew treated differently?
Why isn't the Koran just as good?why is the One of some guesstimate of 1500 god stories that you were
brought up with the Right One and the other ~1499 stories are wrong?
Who made you king?Speaking of spreading disease...

Kleinman:

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You show evidence that masks work and then jump to the conclusion that a general mandate should work but you don't consider whether people wear an effective mask appropriately. Do you think you could scrub in for a surgery without any instruction and do it properly? You have to learn how to wash your hands appropriately, learn how to put on sterile gloves in a sterile manner, how a sterile gown must be put on to avoid contamination, how to put on an effective mask in an appropriate manner, and so on. And now you want to prevent the transmission of an airborne disease with a mask alone, without any instruction at all to the population. It shouldn't surprise you that the data doesn't show that this kind of policy has been effective.

xongsmith:

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As even I showed, Percy has abundantly demonstrated that EDUCATION is the important factor. You are a SHITFUCKER for lying. Or you are illiterate and cannot read.

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Why don't you show us your education by proving that God doesn't exist? Then you can show us why vaccines are not 100% effective, how descent with modification and adaptation works, how the Kishony and Lenski biological evolutionary experiments work, and why it takes a billion replications for each adaptive mutation in the Kishony and Lenski experiment.

This is OFF TOPIC and should be moved to another thread. You cannot prove a negative. Even you know that.How do you know I don't believe God exists?
I could be a Deist, for all you know.Do you have any objective peer-reviewed evidence God exists one way or the other?
There are whole threads here at EvC on Intelligent Design that are more appropriate channels to use.

Kleinman:

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The old testament and new testament together form the Bible

xongsmith:

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what is the difference between the Catholic Bible and the Protestant Bible? Why are the books of Matthew treated differently? Why isn't the Koran just as good?
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why is the One of some guesstimate of 1500 god stories that you were brought up with the Right One and the other ~1499 stories are wrong?

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You need to ask experts in the Bible about the differences between the Protestant, Jewish, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormon, and Catholic Bibles.Christianity is different from all other religions in that God Himself pays the price for our sins and restores our relationship with God. All other religions claim that the person can do some action and make him/herself acceptable to God. That is a very low view of the holiness of God and the price that had to be paid for our sin.

I don't think He gives a blue SHIT, frankly.