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Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1741 of 1864 (910185)
04-18-2023 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1732 by Tangle
04-18-2023 2:54 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Tangled writes:
Given that atheists don't suicide the moment they become atheists, perhaps there's something wrong with your premise?
That where the delusion of meaning comes in ... 99.99% of atheists have to delude themselves that their life has meaning bcoz they lack the courage to face up to the implications of their beliefs ... that life is meaningless.
I've no doubt that some atheists do suicide bcoz they correctly realize the logical implication of their atheist belief - ie, life is utterly meaningless (a recipe for suicide if ever there was one).
One way atheists attempt to inject meaning into their meaningless lives is by investing in a code of pseudo-morality based on equality (started the so-called Enlightenment),
which serves as a replacement for religion .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1732 by Tangle, posted 04-18-2023 2:54 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1743 by Tangle, posted 04-18-2023 6:21 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 1744 by AZPaul3, posted 04-18-2023 6:30 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1742 of 1864 (910186)
04-18-2023 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1732 by Tangle
04-18-2023 2:54 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Tangled writes:
Could it be that a superstitious belief in a 2,000 year old mythology is not required in order to find meaning in life?
Sure ... any delusion that provides "meaning" will do.
"Whatever Gets You Thru the Night" - a song by John Lennon (he should know, having been an idiotic dreamer par excellence).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1732 by Tangle, posted 04-18-2023 2:54 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 1743 of 1864 (910187)
04-18-2023 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1741 by Dredge
04-18-2023 5:48 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes:
That where the delusion of meaning comes in ... 99.99% of atheists have to delude themselves that their life has meaning bcoz they lack the courage to face up to the implications of their beliefs ... that life is meaningless.
Uh? You're telling me that my life is meaningless? I think you need to do a bit of thinking about that. Start with the point that I find stacks of meaning in my life and so does most of Northern Europe. Weird how 99.99%of us here aren't killing ourselves.
I've no doubt that some atheists do suicide bcoz they correctly realize the logical implication of their atheist belief - ie, life is utterly meaningless (a recipe for suicide if ever there was one).
So let me remind you yet again that an atheist is someone that doesn't believe in god(s). Apart from that we're pretty much human.
One way atheists attempt to inject meaning into their meaningless lives is by investing in a code of pseudo-morality based on equality (started the so-called Enlightenment),
which serves as a replacement for religion.
Good to know lawyer. Just for your education, your Jesus was a poster child for equality. Remember do as you would be done by? Love your neighbour as thyself? The first shall be last and the last shall be first? Eye of the needle, sheep from goats. the good Pharisee?
Read you bible lawyer. Us atheists are big fans of its message.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1741 by Dredge, posted 04-18-2023 5:48 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1745 by Dredge, posted 04-18-2023 6:53 PM Tangle has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8536
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 1744 of 1864 (910188)
04-18-2023 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1741 by Dredge
04-18-2023 5:48 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
99.99% of atheists have to delude themselves that their life has meaning bcoz they lack the courage to face up to the implications of their beliefs ... that life is meaningless.
Finding value in living is not what I would consider delusion. We already know that in a few years life will end with any values and joys we may have felt ending as well.
The void is unforgiving ... and total.
We only have this one life to enjoy now.
Now, I know, Altar Boy, that you are want to turn that into a debauched erotic free-for-all but that's just your sex-starved libido talking.
I've no doubt that some atheists do suicide bcoz they correctly realize the logical implication of their atheist belief - ie, life is utterly meaningless (a recipe for suicide if ever there was one).
I will not suffer unbearable life to please some useless and false concept such as a god. If such should come to that, being atheist will certainly help.
... (started the so-called Enlightenment), which serves as a replacement for religion .
Not quickly enough. Rookie numbers. Gotta get those replacements up.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1741 by Dredge, posted 04-18-2023 5:48 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1745 of 1864 (910190)
04-18-2023 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1743 by Tangle
04-18-2023 6:21 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Tangled writes:
You're telling me that my life is meaningless? I think you need to do a bit of thinking about that.
Some athesits are smart enough and courageous enough to recognise that their atheism implies life is meaningless ...
"When asked about the meaning of life, Alom Shaha, author of The Young Atheist’s Handbook, stated:
Yes, of course I know that life is ultimately without meaning or purpose, but the trick is not to wake up every morning and feel that way. Cognitive dissonance? Embrace it. Create a sense of meaning and purpose by doing something useful with your life"
______________________________
"Atheistic philosopher Alex Rosenberg ... The Atheist’s Guide to Reality: Enjoying Life Without Illusions ...
Is there a God? No.
What is the nature of reality? What physics says it is.
What is the purpose of the Universe? There is none.
What is the meaning of life? Ditto.
Why am I here? Just dumb luck.
What is the difference between right and wrong, good and bad? There is no moral difference between them.
Why should I be moral? Because it makes you feel better than being immoral.
Is abortion, euthanasia, suicide, paying taxes, foreign aid, or anything else you don’t like forbidden, permissible, or sometimes obligatory? Anything goes.
Does history have any meaning or purpose? It’s full of sound and fury, but signifies nothing.
Does the human past have any lessons for our future? Fewer and fewer, if it ever had any to begin with."
___________________________
"Graham Lawton, Executive Editor of New Scientist magazine, penned a brief article titled, “What is the Meaning of Life?” He began with his blunt, one line answer: “The harsh answer is ‘it has none.’” He went on to say: “Your life may feel like a big deal to you, but it’s actually a random blip of matter and energy in an uncaring and impersonal universe.""
___________________________________
"Philosopher and self-professed atheist, Thomas Nagel, teaches and writes extensively on atheism’s implication of meaninglessness. In his brief book What Does it All Mean? A Very Short Introduction to Philosophy, he stated: “If you think about the whole thing, there seems to be no point to it at all. Looking at it from the outside, it wouldn’t matter if you had never existed. And after you have gone out of existence, it won’t matter that you did exist.”
_________________________________
"Eminent atheistic author, debater, and spokesperson Richard Dawkins boldly said: “The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.”"
The Despair of Atheism - Apologetics Press

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1743 by Tangle, posted 04-18-2023 6:21 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1746 by AZPaul3, posted 04-18-2023 7:44 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1747 by Tangle, posted 04-19-2023 2:47 AM Dredge has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8536
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 1746 of 1864 (910192)
04-18-2023 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1745 by Dredge
04-18-2023 6:53 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Altar Boy, all this says is that any meaning we can find will be found in ourselves.
We make our own meanings in family, in friends, in community, and we'd better do that alot quick cuz life doesn't last long and the void is forever.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1745 by Dredge, posted 04-18-2023 6:53 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 1747 of 1864 (910195)
04-19-2023 2:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1745 by Dredge
04-18-2023 6:53 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes:
Some athesits are smart enough and courageous enough to recognise that their atheism implies life is meaningless ...
We all are lawyer. Life IS meaningless, we all find our own meaning. You find meaning in a 2000 year old myth of a redeemer that never arrived, we find meaning in reality.
Most people in previously Christian Europe no longer believe in a Christian god of the bible. On average, 26% of people in Europe are atheists. It's pretty obvious that somehow or other we atheists are getting along just fine with the knowledge that this is all there is.
Don't waste your life hating lawyer, it just makes you angry and unhappy.
Turns out that religious beliefs are a minor part of what gives meaning to our lives - even amongst believers.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1745 by Dredge, posted 04-18-2023 6:53 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1751 by Dredge, posted 04-19-2023 5:11 PM Tangle has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 850
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1748 of 1864 (910201)
04-19-2023 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1730 by AZPaul3
04-18-2023 12:25 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
AZ, some of your replies are ridiculous, they just don't
make any sense.
What in the world make you think that God holds
different people to different standards?
God requires the same from Blacks that He does from
Whites. And vice versa.
God expects the same level of commitment to Him from
the rich as He does from the poor.
God is not a respecter of persons. In His eyes we are all
the same.
Does God require one who engages in homosexuality to
turn from it? Yes.
He also requires those who engage in adultery, or those
who steal, or engage in any other sinful activity to turn
away from them.
He requires the same from you, me, and everyone else.
An individual who has the Holy Spirit dwelling in him will
come to develop righteous character.
The fruit of the Spirit consists of: love, joy, peace, faith,
gentleness, goodness, long-suffering, meekness, and
temperance.
Those who have these characteristics deeply ingrained
within them do not start wars. Period.
An individual who only partly commits himself to God is
a double-minded individual.
A double-minded person has divided loyalties/allegiances.
A double-minded individual is unstable in all that He does.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1730 by AZPaul3, posted 04-18-2023 12:25 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1749 by AZPaul3, posted 04-19-2023 9:40 AM candle2 has not replied
 Message 1750 by Dredge, posted 04-19-2023 5:04 PM candle2 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8536
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 1749 of 1864 (910205)
04-19-2023 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1748 by candle2
04-19-2023 8:13 AM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
So spake glorious Hector and issued from the gates, and with him went his brother Alexandros; and both were eager of soul for fight and battle. Even as God giveth to longing seamen fair wind when they have grown weary of beating the main with polished oars, and their limbs are fordone with toil, even so appeared these to the longing Trojans.
Then the one of them slew king Areïthoös’ son, Menesthios dwelling in Arne, whom Areïthoös the Mace-man and ox-eyed Phylomedusa begat; and the other, even Hector, with his sharp spear smote Eïoneus’ neck beneath his bronze helmet-rim, and unstrung his limbs. And Glaukos son of Hippolochos, captain of the men of Lykia, cast his spear at Iphinoos through the press of battle, even at the son of Dexios, as he sprang up behind his fleet mares, and smote his shoulder; so fell he from his chariot to earth and his limbs were unstrung.
Now when the goddess bright-eyed Athene marked them making havoc of the Argives in the press of battle, she darted down from the crests of Olympus to holy Ilios. But Apollo rose to meet her, for he beheld her from Pergamos, and would have victory for the Trojans. So the twain met each the other by the oak-tree. To her spake first king Apollo son of Zeus: “Why now art thou come thus eagerly from Olympus, thou daughter of great Zeus, and why hath thy high heart sent thee? Surely it is to give the Danaans unequal victory in battle! seeing thou hast no mercy on the Trojans, that perish. But if thou wouldest hearken to me—and it were far better so—let us now stay battle and warring for the day; hereafter shall they fight again, till they reach the goal of Ilios, since thus it seemeth good to your hearts, goddesses immortal, to lay waste this city.”
THE ILIAD OF HOMER

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1748 by candle2, posted 04-19-2023 8:13 AM candle2 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1750 of 1864 (910231)
04-19-2023 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1748 by candle2
04-19-2023 8:13 AM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
candle2 writes:
AZ, some of your replies are ridiculous, they just don't
make any sense.
No one said atheists had to make sense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1748 by candle2, posted 04-19-2023 8:13 AM candle2 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1751 of 1864 (910232)
04-19-2023 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1747 by Tangle
04-19-2023 2:47 AM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Tangled writes:
Life IS meaningless, we all find our own meaning.
Wtf??? Life "IS meaningless " but it can also have meaning?
Have you been drinking?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1747 by Tangle, posted 04-19-2023 2:47 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1752 by Tangle, posted 04-19-2023 5:50 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 1753 by AZPaul3, posted 04-19-2023 6:18 PM Dredge has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


(2)
Message 1752 of 1864 (910233)
04-19-2023 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1751 by Dredge
04-19-2023 5:11 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes:
Wtf??? Life "IS meaningless " but it can also have meaning?
Life itself is meaningless; there is no ulterior purpose.
Given that we are alive for a while, we find things that matter to us and call that meaning. Some people like you find some meaning in ancient myth, some like me don't. We all find things that matter to us.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1751 by Dredge, posted 04-19-2023 5:11 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1754 by Dredge, posted 04-19-2023 6:59 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 1755 by Dredge, posted 04-19-2023 7:04 PM Tangle has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8536
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 1753 of 1864 (910234)
04-19-2023 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1751 by Dredge
04-19-2023 5:11 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Wtf??? Life "IS meaningless " but it can also have meaning?
Yes.
Strange the way the human mind works. We can assign meaning to something that has no meaning. It takes intellect to do that, which you are missing, but most normal people can do it.
It might help if you were to stop eating those crackers. The crumbs are gumming up your neural nets.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1751 by Dredge, posted 04-19-2023 5:11 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1760 by Dredge, posted 04-19-2023 9:14 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1754 of 1864 (910236)
04-19-2023 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1752 by Tangle
04-19-2023 5:50 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
In other words. life is meaningless, but let's pretend it isn't. Fascinating.
Little wonder people say atheists are stupid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1752 by Tangle, posted 04-19-2023 5:50 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1763 by Tangle, posted 04-20-2023 1:38 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1755 of 1864 (910238)
04-19-2023 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1752 by Tangle
04-19-2023 5:50 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
"I think only an idiot can be an atheist."
Christian B. Anfinsen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1752 by Tangle, posted 04-19-2023 5:50 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1756 by Theodoric, posted 04-19-2023 8:11 PM Dredge has replied

  
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