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Author Topic:   Exposing the evolution theory. Part 2
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 837 of 1104 (909454)
04-04-2023 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 836 by Kleinman
04-04-2023 7:49 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman writes:
Old idea or new idea, Crick brought up the notion of panspermia when he realized that the structure of the DNA molecule was impossible to evolve.
You're going to have to present the evidence for your claim that Crick said DNA could not have evolved. This is what they actually said
"Crick and Orgel were careful to point out that Directed Panspermia was not a certainty; but rather a plausible alternative that ought to be taken seriously."
Meanwhile, this is an article in Scientific America that outlines his reasons why he thought directed panspermia was a possible explanation for life on earth. It's 50 years ago and no further arguments have been found as far as I'm aware. (Other than the finding of organic material on Mars, meteors and Mercury.)
The Origins of Directed Panspermia - Scientific American Blog Network
Some old ideas are right and some old ideas are wrong. You just don't know which is which.
I know for certain that you 2,000 year god myth is utter bullshit.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 836 by Kleinman, posted 04-04-2023 7:49 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 838 by Kleinman, posted 04-04-2023 9:33 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 839 of 1104 (909460)
04-04-2023 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 838 by Kleinman
04-04-2023 9:33 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman writes:
I don't need to give that evidence when you give it yourself.
You're not a scientist at all are you? Unfortunately religous nutters like yourself generally lie about these things so please reference your source in the time-honoured way.
Plausible alternative to what?
To life starting here - ie abiogenesis on Earth.
The Bible and God were here long before you arrived and will be here long after you return to dust
Oh do grow up.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 838 by Kleinman, posted 04-04-2023 9:33 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 843 by Kleinman, posted 04-04-2023 11:10 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 846 of 1104 (909469)
04-04-2023 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 840 by Dredge
04-04-2023 11:01 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
Dredge writes:
Biology for space-cadets.
Actually a hypothesis awaiting evidence.
To get from "amino acids" to a living, reproducing organism you need to pull out two items from your atheist bag of tricks - delusion and superstition.
Actually, just chemistry. But again, we wait for evidence before claiming anything (or making shit up).

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 840 by Dredge, posted 04-04-2023 11:01 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 848 by Kleinman, posted 04-04-2023 11:31 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 850 by Dredge, posted 04-04-2023 11:56 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 852 of 1104 (909478)
04-04-2023 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 848 by Kleinman
04-04-2023 11:31 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman writes:
Who says that for atheists hope doesn't spring eternal?
You're truly weird aren't you? We'll never get evidence for panspermia, whatever happened to form life on Earth happened billions of years ago and all evidence has long since gone.
Atheist hope for nothing like this. Personally I'd love to see progress on abiogenesis and finding life on other planets but it's not something that crosses my mind anywhere but here or anymore than wondering about AI or what's for dinner.
You're so stuck in your own hopes of religious afterlife fantasies you can't imagine anyone not doing the same. It's called projection.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 848 by Kleinman, posted 04-04-2023 11:31 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 853 by Kleinman, posted 04-04-2023 12:39 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 866 by Dredge, posted 04-05-2023 1:15 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(3)
Message 859 of 1104 (909494)
04-04-2023 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 858 by Dredge
04-04-2023 3:30 PM


Dredge writes:
Not a scientific term.
Accurate observations are extremely scientific.
In fact they're the base bedrock of all science.
There's ample evidence on this website that Kleinman is moronic. But I doubt very much that he's fucking anyone. Except himself of course.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 858 by Dredge, posted 04-04-2023 3:30 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 864 by Kleinman, posted 04-04-2023 5:48 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 871 by Dredge, posted 04-05-2023 1:52 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 872 of 1104 (909513)
04-05-2023 3:19 AM
Reply to: Message 871 by Dredge
04-05-2023 1:52 AM


Dredge writes:
You mean like this one? ....
​
"I think only an idiot can be an atheist."
No, not that one, that's observationally wrong, an error of logic and a rather stupid and un-Christian remark.
Like all people - even fundamental religionist nutters like yourself - atheists can be idiotic but most are not. Group slanders are always wrong, based on prejudice and lack of understanding.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 871 by Dredge, posted 04-05-2023 1:52 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 879 by dwise1, posted 04-05-2023 5:02 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 881 by Dredge, posted 04-05-2023 5:12 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(3)
Message 874 of 1104 (909524)
04-05-2023 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 873 by Kleinman
04-05-2023 8:44 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman writes:
This is a problem that Tangle and biologists have. They think that an observation is all you need for scientific proof. There is no need for experimental verification.
At least try not to be as big a twat as you obviously are. No one here believes that observation alone is required. We believe in the scientific method which of course includes experimentation. You need to look it up sometime.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 873 by Kleinman, posted 04-05-2023 8:44 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 875 by Kleinman, posted 04-05-2023 1:18 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 919 of 1104 (909675)
04-08-2023 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 917 by Kleinman
04-08-2023 11:41 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman writes:
It isn't actually a theory.
The Theory of Evolution, unsurprisingly, is a scientific theory and a scientific theory explains a set of facts. All of them, no exceptions. Exceptions disprove a theory.
The Theory is descent with modification.
The mechanism for modification is mutation followed by natural selection. The mechanism for descent is reproduction.
Do you accept these principles?
Common ancestry is a necessary conclusion from the above statements, it's NOT the theory.
To accept the theory but not the inevitable conclusion would be irrational, but since when has that been a problem for religionists?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 917 by Kleinman, posted 04-08-2023 11:41 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 921 by Kleinman, posted 04-08-2023 12:10 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 925 of 1104 (909681)
04-08-2023 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 921 by Kleinman
04-08-2023 12:10 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman writes:
The "Theory of Evolution" is not the "Theory of Universal Common Descent".
Correct and that is exactly what what I said isn't it?
They are two different things.
The UCA is a necessary conclusion of the ToE. It's is not the ToE.
You and biologists have gotten nowhere near verifying that the "Theory of Universal Common Descent" is a reasonable and rational theory. The fact is, all biological evolutionary experiments contradict this idea.
The fact that animals reproduce and have descendants provides the conclusion of UCD. It's logic and observation. But if you need experimentation why don't you map your family tree? See if you can find an error in it.
If you accept the ToE you MUST accept UCD* it's as simple as that. Otherwise you need to show how non-related animals can sit inside the same family tree. Go ahead, show us.
*there are some interesting exceptions at the single cell stage. There may be horizontal gene transfer in the very early stages of life.
Anyway here's a formal test of UCD for you to ignore and lie about not existing.
A formal test of the theory of universal common ancestry - PubMed

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 921 by Kleinman, posted 04-08-2023 12:10 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 928 by Kleinman, posted 04-08-2023 1:27 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 930 by Dredge, posted 04-08-2023 1:34 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 927 of 1104 (909683)
04-08-2023 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 926 by Dredge
04-08-2023 1:16 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Dredge writes:
You need to stop lying and making a fool of yourself by claiming that the theory of evolution is a fact.
ffs, get it into your dense skull, a scientific theory is a far higher level of knowledge than a simple fact. A theory explains facts, all of them.
But for your simple mind, the ToE IS a fact in the sense of common usage. It is in fact, a fact of life.
Enough trolling.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 926 by Dredge, posted 04-08-2023 1:16 PM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 929 by Kleinman, posted 04-08-2023 1:30 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 933 of 1104 (909691)
04-08-2023 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 930 by Dredge
04-08-2023 1:34 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Dredge writes:
"Theobald recently challenged this problem with a formal statistical test, and concluded that the UCA hypothesis holds. Although his attempt is the first step towards establishing the UCA theory with a solid statistical basis, we think that the test of Theobald is not sufficient enough to reject the alternative hypothesis of the separate origins of life"
Was the universal common ancestry proved? - PubMed
I don't suppose for a moment you read or understood either paper.
They're testing for a single common ancestor billions of years ago at the dawn of life. The criticism is that the model can't "reject the separate origins hypothesis of the domains of life" - ie Bacteria, Archaea, and Eukarya ie cellular scale organisms from billions of years ago.
The ongoing discussion is whether all three descended from a single organism or whether there are alternative explanations. That is not something anybody but academics worry about. You guys are billions of years up the ladder trying to pretend that dinosaurs reptiles, birds and mammal don't share a common ancestor. No-one but loony-tunes religionists doubt that.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 930 by Dredge, posted 04-08-2023 1:34 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 934 by Kleinman, posted 04-08-2023 3:11 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 941 by Dredge, posted 04-08-2023 6:59 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 935 of 1104 (909693)
04-08-2023 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 934 by Kleinman
04-08-2023 3:11 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman writes:
Quote your proof if you think you have some. You won't.
There's 200 years of evidence. Start here
Evidence of common descent - Wikipedia
Meanwhile, show me how it's wrong.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 934 by Kleinman, posted 04-08-2023 3:11 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 936 by Kleinman, posted 04-08-2023 3:27 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 937 of 1104 (909695)
04-08-2023 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 936 by Kleinman
04-08-2023 3:27 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
What's up, can't you read?
Contents
1 Evidence from genetics
2 Evidence from paleontology
2.1 Fossil records
2.1.1 Extent of the Fossil Record
2.2 Evolution of the horse
2.3 Limitations
3 Evidence from comparative anatomy
3.1 Homologous structures and divergent (adaptive) evolution
3.1.1 Pentadactyl limb
3.1.2 Insect mouthparts
3.1.3 Other arthropod appendages
3.2 Analogous structures and convergent evolution
3.3 Vestigial structures
4 Evidence from geographical distribution
4.1 Continental distribution
4.2 Explanation
4.3 Evidence for migration and isolation
4.4 Continental drift
4.5 Oceanic island distribution
5 Evidence from comparative physiology and biochemistry
5.1 Universal biochemical organisation
5.2 Molecular variance patterns
5.3 Out of Africa hypothesis of human evolution
6 Evidence from antibiotic and pesticide resistance
7 Evidence from studies of complex iteration
8 Evidence from speciation
8.1 Hawthorn fly
9 See also
10 References
11 External links
Evidence of common descent - wikidoc
Get back to me when you can say that you accept the Theory of Evolution.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 936 by Kleinman, posted 04-08-2023 3:27 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 938 by Kleinman, posted 04-08-2023 3:56 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 939 of 1104 (909697)
04-08-2023 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 938 by Kleinman
04-08-2023 3:56 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Good night Kleinman

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 938 by Kleinman, posted 04-08-2023 3:56 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 940 by Kleinman, posted 04-08-2023 4:04 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(4)
Message 949 of 1104 (909727)
04-09-2023 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 948 by Kleinman
04-09-2023 12:42 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
As an undergraduate Zoologist I lived with two Aeronautical Engineers. They explained mathematically to me that bumble bees can't fly.
The observation of bees flying suggested that the mathematics might be incomplete or just wrong. The problem was solved in 2000.
The Bumblebee Flight Myth - Animal Dynamics
You see Kleinman, you have it all backwards, your model needs to explain reality, if it can't, it's wrong.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 948 by Kleinman, posted 04-09-2023 12:42 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 950 by Kleinman, posted 04-09-2023 1:15 PM Tangle has not replied

  
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