Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,818 Year: 3,075/9,624 Month: 920/1,588 Week: 103/223 Day: 1/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Trump Post-Presidency and Insurrection
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 195 of 438 (897327)
09-02-2022 9:43 PM


Barr Pipes Up
In a recent interview on Fox News about docugate former attorney general William Barr said:
WaPo:
“it is clearly foolish what happened, and inexplicable,” he added that it was not clear whether the actions should be criminally prosecuted, considering, among other things, the documents were ultimately recovered.
Imagine this scenario. A bank is robbed and the thieves get away with several hundred thousand dollars but are later apprehended and all the money recovered. The local prosecuting attorney declines to prosecute because “the money was ultimately recovered.”
That would never happen, of course, but it seems that in Bill Barr’s world that if you steal money then you go to jail, but if you steal documents that put the security of the entire country at risk then you go free.
What a country!
Source: Barr says no ‘legitimate reason’ for Trump to have classified documents
—Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by nwr, posted 09-02-2022 10:58 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 198 by AZPaul3, posted 09-04-2022 2:01 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 231 of 438 (908686)
03-19-2023 8:17 AM


Trump Comments on Manhattan DA's Investigation
As reported in Trump says he expects to be arrested Tuesday as DA eyes charges - CBS News, former president Donald Trump yesterday posted on Truth Social:
Donald Trump:
THE FAR & AWAY LEADING REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE & FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, WILL BE ARRESTED ON TUESDAY OF NEXT WEEK.
...
PROTEST, TAKE OUR NATION BACK!
I think Trump is right, people should protest, and just as on January 6th of 2020 they should fight for what they hold dear. They should break into the offices of Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Brag and wander the halls intoning in a sing-song voice, "Alvin?...Alvin?...Where are you Alvin?" House Speaker Kevin McCarthy can provide exclusive video to Tucker Carlson and only Tucker Carlson so he can show how peaceful it was.
--Percy

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 236 of 438 (909347)
04-01-2023 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by xongsmith
04-01-2023 7:47 AM


Re: Trump Wins Supreme Court!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by xongsmith, posted 04-01-2023 7:47 AM xongsmith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Theodoric, posted 04-01-2023 11:12 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(4)
Message 239 of 438 (909404)
04-03-2023 9:08 AM


It's More Than Just Dominion
In dismissing Fox New's motion for summary judgment, Superior Court Judge Eric M. Davis ruled Friday that Fox News and guests lied numerous times in making claims that Dominion threw the election to Biden. In one of the few times in our history a significant defamation claim will move on to trial. (Judge: Dominion defamation case against Fox will go to trial)
I will not enumerate or even attempt to summarize the numerous times that Fox News hosts and guests lied, nor about the back channel admissions that Fox News knew it was lying. That information can be found spread across many news articles over the past couple years.
I want to call attention to the fact that the Dominion case isn't just a single incident, isn't just the one time that Fox News stepped outside the lines. It just an example, and not the most egregious, of Fox News lying about everything. They're not a News Organization but a ratings organization. Whatever need be said to deliver the greatest viewership and highest ratings, that's what Fox News will say. Honest reporting, truth and accuracy don't even have a casual relationship with Fox News. They're in constant conflict with these ideals.
Here's some other topics, by no means a complete list, just what I can recall at the moment, about which Fox News has lied or is still lying:
  • The 2020 election
  • The 2016 election
  • The pandemic
  • The Trump insurrection
  • The Trump mistress payoff scheme
  • The Trump Georgia election interference scheme
  • The Trump false property valuations schemes
  • The border
  • Black Lives Matter
  • Hunter Biden
  • Replacement theory
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by marc9000, posted 04-03-2023 9:46 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(3)
Message 242 of 438 (909453)
04-04-2023 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by marc9000
04-03-2023 9:46 PM


Re: It's More Than Just Dominion
I wrote everything I said in Message 239. You wrote almost none of the words in the response you posted. From the Forum Guidelines:
  1. Avoid lengthy cut-n-pastes. Introduce the point in your own words and provide a link to your source as a reference. If your source is not on-line you may contact the Site Administrator to have it made available on-line.
Use your words. No one's interested in arguing with cut-n-pastes and videos. The Internet is a big place and anyone's ability to cut-n-paste dwarfs what could be verified or responded to by single individuals.
Fox News is not a news organization but a propaganda machine who serves up what their viewers want to hear and will say whatever it takes to keep them. The Dominion case makes this eminently clear.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by marc9000, posted 04-03-2023 9:46 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by marc9000, posted 04-04-2023 9:06 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(4)
Message 245 of 438 (909521)
04-05-2023 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 243 by marc9000
04-04-2023 9:06 PM


Re: It's More Than Just Dominion
marc9000 writes:
I wrote everything I said in Message 239.
Yes, I noticed. Most all bare assertions with no supporting evidence.
I provided a link to the news article about Fox News' lies about Dominion, and the rest is just common knowledge. If you'd like to dispute some of it then you have to tell me what it is you're disputing.
From the Forum Guidelines:
Here we go again. Message 236 is a bare link with none of your words. I could easily load this message up with examples of Forum Rule #10 being shattered by your helpers.
Boy are you ever out to lunch. Look at the date, Marc. It was an April Fool's joke, and *all* the words were mine. The link is self-referencing, i.e., to the message containing it.
When you play the forum rule card while breaking those rules yourself, it tells me that I probably need to vacate for awhile like I've wisely done a few times in the past. I could be close to a banning, and this terrifies me greatly.
If you think Fox News didn't lie about some of the items in my list you're more than welcome to ask me to support my assertions, but I don't know why you'd do that. The Dominion case all by itself is enough to illustrate how Fox News's priorities lie with ratings and audience levels, not truth and accuracy. They throw a lot of stuff against the wall, and whatever sticks (i.e., the audience responds well) they give them more of. Truth is not part of their equation. In fact, as we've seen, telling the truth can get you fired at Fox News.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by marc9000, posted 04-04-2023 9:06 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(3)
Message 251 of 438 (909737)
04-09-2023 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by Phat
04-09-2023 10:30 AM


Re: Arguments Against Republicans as Fascists
Phat writes:
Trump is, in my opinion, a Nationalist but clearly not a Socialist.
I Know Fascists; Donald Trump Is No Fascist <---From Atlantic
First, we want to know why *you* think Trump is not a fascist, not the article's author, Gianni Riotta.
That was an old article from 2016, before the January 6th fiasco.
Second, don't you think Ms. Riotta's opinion might have changed by January 7th, 2021?
In essence all you've said is, "Seven years ago this person didn't believe Trump was a fascist." His increasingly authoritarian behavior all through his presidency and his efforts after the 2020 vote to overturn a free and fair election have pretty much cemented his fascist bonafides
I do think that the Democrats need to address the concerns of marginalized populists regardless of the fact that many of them are white.
Yeah, exactly! Why is it always the Republicans that have to deal with those uppity blacks? Why don't Democrats ever do anything about them?
I do think that the Democrats need to address the concerns of marginalized populists regardless of the fact that many of them are white.
Right on, brother. White populist concerns about uppity blacks should be taken seriously by the Democrats. Black Live Matters my ass.
I think that dredging up Stormy Daniels was a low blow, personally.
A couple of comments here. Am I to understand that you think it was a worse thing to have made the Stormy Daniels payoff public than to have cheated on your wife, paid Daniels to keep quiet so that the public wouldn't factor that into their voting decisions, then maintained the secrecy by cooking the books of your organization to hide payoffs under the category of legal fees?
My other comment is that it was the highly conservative Wall Street Journal that broke the Stormy Daniels story: Trump Lawyer Arranged $130,000 Payment for Adult-Film Star’s Silence
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Phat, posted 04-09-2023 10:30 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by Phat, posted 04-10-2023 4:11 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(4)
Message 253 of 438 (909773)
04-11-2023 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by Phat
04-10-2023 4:11 PM


Re: Arguments Against Republicans as Fascists
Phat writes:
Percy writes:
Why is it always the Republicans that have to deal with those uppity blacks? Why don't Democrats ever do anything about them?
I did not mention blacks at all.
You didn't have to. These "marginalized populists" complain about the same things you do, Black Lives Matter and reparation discussions and so forth. Your racism is no secret.
All I am defending is the notion that populist concerns should not be ignored.
You're using the term "populist" incorrectly. Trump is the populist. His followers can be called many things (rubes, suckers, white nationalists, white supremacists, mob rule advocates), but not populists.
If you want to make it a black/white thing,...
You already made it a "black/white thing" when you started classifying white groups as marginalized.
I would only say that populists(many of them white) should NOT have to go to the back of the bus in the name of affirmative action.
Are there actually conservatives making the absurd claim that they're being asked to go to the back of bus? Or is this a metaphor for their feelings of grievance that they're being turned into second class citizens at the same time that they're victimizing blacks and other minorities at a horrifying rate, even being so daring as to oust a pair of black lawmakers from the Tennessee legislature.
But I was NOT trying to make populism a black/white issue.
Trump is as racist as they come, and he's out there convincing the people already at the top of the heap that they're actually marginalized victims.
If our economy does collapse before then, he [Trump] may be the only one that can pull us out of it,,,,albeit at the cost of damaging nearly every political alliance in existence. Is that Fascist?
It's his antagonism toward our democratic institutions, free and fair elections for example, that make him fascist.
The question is the same as the one leveled at the German people in the twenties: Would you rather be broke?
The German people were never presented a choice between destitution and fascism. That Hitler was intent on becoming a fascist dictator wasn't something he made public. You appear to be suggesting that fascism is an alternative worth considering if it improves the economy.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Phat, posted 04-10-2023 4:11 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by Phat, posted 04-11-2023 12:14 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 255 of 438 (909854)
04-12-2023 8:19 AM
Reply to: Message 254 by Phat
04-11-2023 12:14 PM


Re: Arguments Against Republicans as Fascists
Phat writes:
Percy writes:
You appear to be suggesting that fascism is an alternative worth considering if it improves the economy.​
No, I wouldnt go that far, though I suspect that the Conservatives seem to understand some of my pet peeves while the Liberals act as if I'm making stuff up.
It's less that we think you're making stuff up then that your knowledge and comprehension is so poor that oftentimes you're not even wrong, or even comprehensible.
I know how much you all loathe Tucker Carlson, and I also understand your argument that Fox News caters to what its audience wants to hear,...
Translation: Fox News tells lies that it knows are lies to its audience.
...but my friend sent me this clip of Carlson describing the upcoming collapse (or demise) of the US Dollar which just so happens to corroborate with what Ive been researching.
Translation: "This reinforces my fantasies, so I'm going to believe it."
Meanwhile, the Democrats (many of you) act as if though its all made up.
That's because it is. You're a fantasist who is particularly vulnerable to YouTube videos delivered in an urgent and intense tone.
I think that "your side" wants to believe that the whole demise of the dollar thing is a Right Wing Conspiracy,...
More a fairy tale than a conspiracy.
...and I believe that you are all WRONG. Prove me otherwise.
Every day that your fantasies don't come true is proof that you're wrong.
Omigod, another YouTube video. Give it up, already.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by Phat, posted 04-11-2023 12:14 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 265 of 438 (911020)
06-01-2023 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by dwise1
05-31-2023 11:47 PM


Re: How to Handle Trump's Incarceration?
dwise1 writes:
It's pretty much a forgone conclusion that the multiple investigations into Trump's flagrant criminal activities will result in more indictments and prosecutions which are very likely to result in convictions.
To this point in time Trump has been charged with 34 felony counts of falsification of business records made in an attempt to hide the fact that monies were paid to Storm Daniels for her silence about an alleged sexual affair. I'm no lawyer, so I'll just guess that possible outcomes are a plea deal, or a trial with possible verdicts ranging from not guilty to a hung jury to guilty. Sentencing guidelines for a guilty verdict range from probation and no jail time all the up to four years in jail.
The wide range of possible outcomes might mean a similarly wide range of probabilities for convictions.
If he gets a prison sentence/sentences, a big problem will concern the poor Secret Service agents who have to accompany him in prison in order to protect him, including accompanying him in the showers to keep him from getting shanked.
Yes, if Trump went to prison he would have an SS detail, but the prison would be one of those white collar minimum security prisons also referred to as camps or Club Fed.
This is my main legal question: are there any provisions for stripping an ex-President of his retirement benefits?
Looks like not. The Former Presidents Act says that benefits provided to former presidents are subject to these conditions:
  • who shall have held the office of President of the United States of America;
  • whose service in such office shall have terminated other than by removal pursuant to section 4 of article II of the Constitution of the United States of America; and
  • who does not then currently hold such office.
To add "shall not have been convicted of a felony after leaving office" would require an act of Congress.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by dwise1, posted 05-31-2023 11:47 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by dwise1, posted 06-01-2023 8:13 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 267 of 438 (911022)
06-01-2023 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by dwise1
06-01-2023 8:13 PM


Re: How to Handle Trump's Incarceration?
dwise1 writes:
For his federal crimes, yes, but those 34 felony counts you cite are under state law,...
You're right. New York State does have a minimum security prison, the Queensboro Correctional Facility. If it somehow happens that Trump gets convicted and sentenced to prison, which seems an unbelievable possibility given his lifetime of being just too slippery, wherever he's housed might require modifications for security purposes.
Another possible trial outcome that just occurred to me is being sentenced to prison time but having the sentence suspended. Usually conditions are attached.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by dwise1, posted 06-01-2023 8:13 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 270 of 438 (911091)
06-09-2023 6:45 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by dwise1
06-09-2023 2:22 AM


Re: Trump indicted again
dwise1 writes:
When I see him (he's East Coast, I'm West Coast), I want to warn him against ever going to work for Trump. My son will not be able to afford the attorney's fees.
I'd have more concern for his soul than his finances.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by dwise1, posted 06-09-2023 2:22 AM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by Phat, posted 06-09-2023 2:50 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(3)
Message 280 of 438 (911102)
06-09-2023 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by Phat
06-09-2023 2:50 PM


Re: It Remains To Be Seen How Hard They Can Nail Him
Phat writes:
Percy writes:
I'd have more concern for his soul than his finances.​
Why do you guys hate Trump so much?
We don't hate Trump, or at least I don't. It is evil that I hate in all its manifestations.
Being the moderate I am,...
You are a racist right-wing ideologue and an easy mark for anyone with a YouTube video.
None of the other things you decided to also be wrong about are on topic, so I won't comment.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Phat, posted 06-09-2023 2:50 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 286 of 438 (911110)
06-10-2023 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by dwise1
06-10-2023 12:56 PM


Re: It Remains To Be Seen How Hard They Can Nail Him
I still think asking why we hate Trump was the wrong question, because it implies irrationality and/or emotionality.
A better question is why we think Trump is a seriously flawed person and a bad leader for the country, and there was no need for Phat to ask this question because we've been very explicit and detailed about Trump for years. But this is what Phat does, ask the same question over and over again, no matter that it's been answered many times.
In more general terms than the reasons you provided, Trump is a venal, vicious, immoral, amoral, malevolent person who wants to be dictator. He's also a Pied Piper who can influence large numbers of people to follow him no matter what he says or does. That very few Trump followers think he has ever done anything wrong, whether it be January 6th or hoarding government documents or cheating in his business dealings or sexually abusing women, is testament to his persuasive powers.
The only proper stance about wrongdoing is that people who do wrong should be held accountable. It shouldn't matter whether they were Democrat or Republican or Mother Teresa, the same rules and standards should apply. If Biden sexually harassed Tara Reade he should be held accountable. If he peddled influence to foreign powers he should be held accountable. If Hunter Biden committed criminal acts he should be held accountable.
And if Trump committed criminal acts then he too should be held accountable. This isn't rocket science.
That doesn't mean achieving the right outcomes is easy, but knowing what's right is very easy. As Robert Fulghum said, it's what we learned in kindergarten, but nearly half the country seems to have forgotten those lessons.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by dwise1, posted 06-10-2023 12:56 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(6)
Message 288 of 438 (911135)
06-11-2023 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by Phat
06-11-2023 3:18 PM


Re: How to Handle Trump's Incarceration?
Phat writes:
The reason that I re ask many of the same questions is because not only am I unimpressed with the quick answers...I think that many of you can think and go deeper. (Many of you would expect the same from me)
Once the question has been answered in detail multiple times, how many more times do you need?
I'm not pro Trump.
You are many things you deny being.
I saw the detailed list of charges against him and I fully agree that he needs to answer those charges.
And there's the pre-January 6th efforts to overturn the election by forming fraudulent delegate slates and lobbying state-level secretaries of state, the insurrection part of January 6th, the pressuring of the vice-president part of January 6th, the continual and ongoing claims of 2020 electoral fraud, the illegal business activities, and the sexual abuse. You know all this stuff, so why are you asking people why they have strong negative feelings about Trump?
What I still don't understand, however, is comments such as "Can we take his retirement?"
That's just basic human nature. The much more perplexing question is why you don't understand why people might say things like this about someone who's done as much to hurt the country as Trump has.
Democrats think that the government should control our money and I will forever disagree with this.
Yeah, right, that's what the Democrats think. And the Republicans think children should have guns. You know how I know? I saw it on a YouTube video.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by Phat, posted 06-11-2023 3:18 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024