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Author Topic:   Testing The Financial Apologists
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 181 of 328 (909166)
03-28-2023 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Tanypteryx
03-28-2023 7:48 PM


Re: The Debt: 3 Months Later
The current rate of inflation is higher than the expected values of maturing bonds.
There is no way to stop inflation in todays world. It will slowly chew all of our incomes up.
No matter which political party we assign blame to, the problem is ALL of ours. The solution has not yet been proposed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 7:48 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 8:07 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 186 by PaulK, posted 03-29-2023 1:44 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 182 of 328 (909167)
03-28-2023 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Tanypteryx
03-28-2023 7:48 PM


Re: The Debt: 3 Months Later
The idiot still has no idea how the economy, financial markets and the government work. You would think with all of his whining, bitching and misinformation he would.have learned something.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 7:48 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 8:13 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 183 of 328 (909168)
03-28-2023 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Phat
03-28-2023 7:57 PM


Re: The Debt: 3 Months Later
There is no way to stop inflation in todays world. It will slowly chew all of our incomes up.
That's because inflation is global right now due to shocks to the global economy by the Covid pandemic, but the actions by the Fed has kept inflation much lower here than in many other countries.
You still haven't answered my question:
Tanypteryx writes:
Phat writes:
Sometimes I think that the progressives actually want this debt tied to the public-at-large and want to make sure there is no way to get out of it.
What "way out of it" are you talking about?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Phat, posted 03-28-2023 7:57 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 184 of 328 (909169)
03-28-2023 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Theodoric
03-28-2023 7:58 PM


Re: The Debt: 3 Months Later
The idiot still has no idea how the economy, financial markets and the government work. You would think with all of his whining, bitching and misinformation he would.have learned something.
Yeah, I agree!
Given what he's said here about his personal finances, I'm starting to doubt that his income is high enough to pay any federal income tax, so all his whining and bitching is phony.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Theodoric, posted 03-28-2023 7:58 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Theodoric, posted 03-28-2023 8:22 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied
 Message 191 by Phat, posted 04-01-2023 3:20 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 185 of 328 (909170)
03-28-2023 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Tanypteryx
03-28-2023 8:13 PM


Re: The Debt: 3 Months Later
And if he does pay I would like to know what his average tax rate is. Minimal at best I assume. I guarantee you that I pay a much higher average.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 8:13 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by xongsmith, posted 03-29-2023 3:17 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 186 of 328 (909179)
03-29-2023 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by Phat
03-28-2023 7:57 PM


Re: The Debt: 3 Months Later
quote:
The current rate of inflation is higher than the expected values of maturing bonds.

There is no way to stop inflation in todays world. It will slowly chew all of our incomes up.
Indeed, after a long period of low inflation the after-effects of COVID plus the effects of the Russian invasion of Ukraine have seen a rise.
But obviously there are ways to keep inflation down. That’s why we’ve had low inflation for the last few decades. Remember the ‘70s? The current inflation rate in the US is not bad by that standard.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Phat, posted 03-28-2023 7:57 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 187 of 328 (909181)
03-29-2023 3:17 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Theodoric
03-28-2023 8:22 PM


Re: income tax
i'm retired now with only SS income plus bank interest under $100.00. To owe any taxes the annualized SS figure and that plus the interest has to be multiplied by 0.5 and the result for married, filing separately living apart for the whole of 2022 has to be more than $25,000. so I don't have to file and also the withholding was 0.00 so i don't have to file to get that back and therefore I save a stamp.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Theodoric, posted 03-28-2023 8:22 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 188 of 328 (909195)
03-29-2023 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by Phat
03-28-2023 7:25 PM


Re: The Debt: 3 Months Later
Phat writes:
Sometimes I think that the progressives actually want this debt tied to the public-at-large and want to make sure there is no way to get out of it.
Fantasizing about evil progressives seems to be a common thing among conservatives. Why is that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Phat, posted 03-28-2023 7:25 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Phat, posted 03-30-2023 1:07 AM Taq has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 189 of 328 (909239)
03-30-2023 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Taq
03-29-2023 11:50 AM


Re: The Debt: 3 Months Later
The only reason that I can think of is that progressives are not always about progress
Modern Monetary Theory is a great example of foolish thinking. This whole idea that the West can continue to create more debt with no repercussions is naive and short sighted.
You may claim that the dollar is strong, but it is an illusion. The dollars best days are behind it. There are evident cracks in the Western Armor. One of them is the recent development by China and the Saudis to create what in essence will become a Petro-Renubi. The Petro Dollar is breaking down. There is no hard asset left that serves to stabilize the US Dollar. Some day soon, within the next five years, the nations that have bought T-Bills will dump them back on the US and cease buying more. The move will be started by perhaps only one nation, but others will follow. The United States will lose the advantage that we have enjoyed for over 50 years of being able to "print" our way out of trouble. The banking crises will slowly spread until perhaps as little as 5-10 years from now there will only be six major banks left--backed by the Federal Reserve.
And we have other problems too. Because we backed Ukraine and gave them so many weapons, we ourselves have depleted our own stocks of weapons and need to replace them. Im not arguing against that war,mind you---we had to take a stand, but what we have done by weaponizing the dollar is to drive Russia into Chinas camp. Essentially, the BRICS alliance is now fully committed to bypass the US Dollar and create their own global reserve currency. They cant match us yet, but the alliances that they are forming will eventually include most of the global population and most of the global resources.
Im not going to do a lot of digging in order to prove any of this to you all. I simply stand by my assertions and time will tell how insane I am.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God
but
God is not alone
~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Taq, posted 03-29-2023 11:50 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Taq, posted 03-30-2023 10:59 AM Phat has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 190 of 328 (909263)
03-30-2023 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by Phat
03-30-2023 1:07 AM


Re: The Debt: 3 Months Later
Phat writes:
The only reason that I can think of is that progressives are not always about progress
But what is it with fantasizing about progressives?
What it tells me is that you can't point to what progressives are actually doing, so you have to invent stories.
Modern Monetary Theory is a great example of foolish thinking. This whole idea that the West can continue to create more debt with no repercussions is naive and short sighted.
Modern Monetary Theory does not say that you can create an unlimited amount of debt with no repercussions. You are foolish if you think that is what MMT says.
The dollars best days are behind it.
Baloney.
quote:
The U.S. Dollar Index started 2022 in a solid uptrend. From late April through late September, the Dixie—as the index is often called—ripped to new 20-year highs. U.S. tourists traveling abroad were big beneficiaries, but the dollar’s rapid climb pressured earnings growth for U.S. companies that have overseas units.
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/strong-dollar/
The US dollar is currently the strongest currency around.
There is no hard asset left that serves to stabilize the US Dollar.
There is no hard asset that stabilizes ANY currency. All currencies in all countries are fiat currencies.
Some day soon, within the next five years, the nations that have bought T-Bills will dump them back on the US and cease buying more.
WHY???? US T-bonds are considered one of the safest investments in the world.
The banking crises will slowly spread until perhaps as little as 5-10 years from now there will only be six major banks left--backed by the Federal Reserve.
Why will it spread?
Because we backed Ukraine and gave them so many weapons, we ourselves have depleted our own stocks of weapons and need to replace them.
How is that a problem? We already spend more on defense than the rest of the world combined.
Essentially, the BRICS alliance is now fully committed to bypass the US Dollar and create their own global reserve currency.
That currency would be a fiat currency just like the US dollar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Phat, posted 03-30-2023 1:07 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Phat, posted 04-01-2023 3:26 PM Taq has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 191 of 328 (909354)
04-01-2023 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Tanypteryx
03-28-2023 8:13 PM


Re: The Debt: 3 Months Later
Tanypteryx writes:
Is the answer coming anytime soon? I'm beginning to think that you are bullshitting us.
Just what exactly is this duping that you have brilliantly uncovered?
The way that my thinking process works is that I gather a lot of information from various sources and compare it with contrary points presented by common sources such as direct quotes from Powell and Yellen themselves. Before I do, however, let me ask you genius's a question. Why is it that the Fed alternates so radically between QE and QT? And why do they raise interest rates one quarter only to lower them another? In my mind, it takes no rocket scientist to draw a corrollary of a car stuck in the mud. First, the driver floors it. next,they shift into reverse. Why? Because they are STUCK!! Just as our economy is STUCK. And we wont get out of the mud.
What is a Fed Pivot and Why Does It Matter?
Investopedia:
A Fed pivot involves the U.S. central bank changing course and reversing its prior monetary policy stance. If the economy appears to be entering a recession, the Fed may pivot from a high interest rate environment to an accommodative monetary policy, featuring lower interest rates, increased open market operations (OMO), and quantitative easing (QE).
We are not only heading into a recession but a full blown depression. Your optimism regarding a perpetually strong dollar is naive.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 8:13 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-01-2023 4:04 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 192 of 328 (909355)
04-01-2023 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Taq
03-30-2023 10:59 AM


Re: The Debt: 3 Months Later
Phat writes:
Essentially, the BRICS alliance is now fully committed to bypass the US Dollar and create their own global reserve currency.
Taq writes:
That currency would be a fiat currency just like the US dollar.
Oh?
GOLD REVALUATION: BRICS Currency Will Feature Significant Gold Backing
quote:
BRICS is at the center of a changing currency game, going from the dollar as a reserve currency to a basket of global currencies backed by gold.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Taq, posted 03-30-2023 10:59 AM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by Phat, posted 04-01-2023 3:31 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 196 by Theodoric, posted 04-01-2023 4:42 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 193 of 328 (909356)
04-01-2023 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Phat
04-01-2023 3:26 PM


Re: The Debt: 3 Months Later
Also watch this. (I know none of you will, but thats your problem!
This whole problem started with the FED bailing out the banks in 2007-2008. It has been accelerated by monetizing the debt since then.
I predict that soon my "outlandish youtube claims" will become mainstream news.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Phat, posted 04-01-2023 3:26 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-01-2023 4:08 PM Phat has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 194 of 328 (909357)
04-01-2023 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Phat
04-01-2023 3:20 PM


Re: The Debt: 3 Months Later
So, still not a single word about how they were duped and by whom they were duped, and why they have not noticed, but you have.
Phat writes:
Before I do, however, let me ask you genius's a question. Why is it that the Fed alternates so radically between QE and QT? And why do they raise interest rates one quarter only to lower them another?
Probably because the economy is not static and they want to see how things react.
Phat writes:
We are not only heading into a recession but a full blown depression.
Well, economies are cyclic and we live on a planet with 8 billion people and growing with dwindling resources and livable habitat, so yep, there are going to be future depressions and recessions and wars.
Phat writes:
Your optimism regarding a perpetually strong dollar is naive.
Please show me where I have ever expressed any opinion about the strength of the dollar. I have stated that you are deluded that you know anything about finance and economies.
And all your "the sky is falling, the sky is falling nonsense" about China, Russia and some other countries forming some kind of trading partnership and a new currency is useless. What do you think anyone can do about it? As far as I can see various sanctions are our only weapon and I don't remember that stopping anyone from continuing right on with whatever behavior the U.S. doesn't like.
Phat writes:
In my mind, it takes no rocket scientist to draw a corrollary of a car stuck in the mud. First, the driver floors it. next,they shift into reverse. Why? Because they are STUCK!! Just as our economy is STUCK. And we wont get out of the mud.
First off, don't ask rocket scientists to fix the economy. Despite lower inflation than most of the rest of the planet, just what exactly would you do to fix it?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Phat, posted 04-01-2023 3:20 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 195 of 328 (909358)
04-01-2023 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Phat
04-01-2023 3:31 PM


Re: The Debt: 3 Months Later
Phat writes:
It has been accelerated by monetizing the debt since then.
Monetizing the debt? What does that mean?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Phat, posted 04-01-2023 3:31 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Phat, posted 04-03-2023 11:20 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
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