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Author Topic:   The Power of the New Intelligent Design...
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1133 of 1197 (908887)
03-22-2023 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1131 by Taq
03-22-2023 10:47 AM


Re: Typical?
Unlike Darwinoids, I interpret the fossil as it is, not as I want it to be. If as-yet-unknown fossils are discovered that fill all those yawning evolutionary gaps, I will amend my view accordingly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1131 by Taq, posted 03-22-2023 10:47 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1134 by Taq, posted 03-22-2023 5:10 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1136 of 1197 (909003)
03-26-2023 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1134 by Taq
03-22-2023 5:10 PM


Re: Typical?
Taq writes:
Then how do you determine if a fossil doesn't have an ancestor just from the fossil alone?
I don't attempt to determine if a fossil has an ancestor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1134 by Taq, posted 03-22-2023 5:10 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1137 by Taq, posted 03-27-2023 3:40 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1138 of 1197 (909076)
03-27-2023 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1137 by Taq
03-27-2023 3:40 PM


Re: Typical?
A gap in the Darwinian story ... a story I don't subscribe to. All I know is life-forms changed over time - I don't know if they evolved from ancestors or not, so I don't look at the fossil record in terms of evolutionary ancestors.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1137 by Taq, posted 03-27-2023 3:40 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1139 by AZPaul3, posted 03-27-2023 11:44 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 1142 by Taq, posted 03-28-2023 11:00 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1140 of 1197 (909085)
03-28-2023 1:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1139 by AZPaul3
03-27-2023 11:44 PM


Re: Typical?
Fossils can't tell us what happened or confirm any theory about what happened ... whether it be Darwinism or some form of divine creation or whatever. No one will ever know what happened, so I don't waste my time trying to find out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1139 by AZPaul3, posted 03-27-2023 11:44 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1141 by AZPaul3, posted 03-28-2023 4:03 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 1143 by Taq, posted 03-28-2023 11:01 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1144 of 1197 (909111)
03-28-2023 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1142 by Taq
03-28-2023 11:00 AM


Re: Typical?
Fossils can't tell us what caused the changes with fossilised nested hierarchies. Fossils can't even confirm that one fossil is the evolutionary ancestor of another fossil.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1142 by Taq, posted 03-28-2023 11:00 AM Taq has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1145 of 1197 (909114)
03-28-2023 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1142 by Taq
03-28-2023 11:00 AM


Re: Typical?
Taqo writes:
What story?
An atheist's favourite bedtime story ... UCD and how neo-Darwinian mechanisms produced the changes evident in the fossil record.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1142 by Taq, posted 03-28-2023 11:00 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1160 by Taq, posted 03-29-2023 11:47 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1146 of 1197 (909117)
03-28-2023 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1143 by Taq
03-28-2023 11:01 AM


Re: Typical?
Taqo writes:
If life evolved from a common ancestor then fossils should form a nested hierarchy. Why can't we use fossils to test this prediction?
What a pity the fossil record contradicts your theory of universal common descent. There are nested hierarchies alright, but they appear separately in the fossil record (mostly during the Cambriam explosion), not as part of your predicted single tree of common descent.
Your psychological need to believe in UCD (due to your atheism) prevents you from accepting what the fossil record shows. You keep mindlessly insisting that the fossil record reveals a single tree of UCD - Darwin's disproven nineteenth-century fantasy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1143 by Taq, posted 03-28-2023 11:01 AM Taq has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1147 of 1197 (909118)
03-28-2023 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1141 by AZPaul3
03-28-2023 4:03 AM


Re: Typical?
APauling666 writes:
BS. They have and they did.
For starters, fossils can't tell us what process produced the changes in life-forms evident in the fossil record. That's a fact you seem to have trouble accepting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1141 by AZPaul3, posted 03-28-2023 4:03 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1148 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 1:33 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1149 of 1197 (909137)
03-28-2023 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1148 by Tanypteryx
03-28-2023 1:33 PM


Re: Typical?
There are zero genetic examples of novel body plans and organs evolving.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1148 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 1:33 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1150 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 2:43 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1151 of 1197 (909150)
03-28-2023 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1150 by Tanypteryx
03-28-2023 2:43 PM


Re: Typical?
Please explain how can you claim to understand how genetics produced novel body plans and organs when no one has ever observed such changes?
Have you slipped into "con-man" mode again?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1150 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 2:43 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1152 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 7:28 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1153 of 1197 (909172)
03-29-2023 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1152 by Tanypteryx
03-28-2023 7:28 PM


Re: Typical?
Dredge writes:
Please explain how can you claim to understand how genetics produced novel body plans and organs when no one has ever observed such changes?
Taqo writes:
I have never made such a claim
Really? Let me refresh your memory, from Message 1148
Dredge writes:
fossils can't tell us what process produced the changes in life-forms evident in the fossil record
Taqo writes:
That's why we don't use fossils for that, instead we use genetics and developmental biology to tell us about the processes that produced those changes

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1152 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 7:28 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1155 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-29-2023 12:38 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1154 of 1197 (909173)
03-29-2023 12:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1152 by Tanypteryx
03-28-2023 7:28 PM


Re: Typical?
Taqo writes:
I would still like to know, can you even describe a novel body plan or organ?
Lame. So when scientists discuss the evolution of novel body plans and organs, you've got idea what they're talking about?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1152 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 7:28 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1156 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-29-2023 12:42 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1157 of 1197 (909180)
03-29-2023 1:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1156 by Tanypteryx
03-29-2023 12:42 AM


Re: Typical?
Taqo writes:
The only people I ever hear talking about novel body plans and organs are young earth creationists like you.
Wow, in that case, you're an ignoramus who's read nothing about the evolutionary history of life on earth. Without the (alleged) evolution of novel body plans and organs, there would be nothing for evolutionary scientists to write about!!
Pray tell, how did the first life-forms (allegedly bacteria) evolve into all the other life-forms without the evolution of novel body plans and organs?
There would be literally thousands of scientific papers and articles published that discuss the evolution of novel body plans and organs. Here are just a few:
The Evolutionary Origins of Body Plans (Chapter 7) - Understanding Evo-Devo
The Evolution of Complex Organs | Evolution: Education and Outreach | Full Text
Origins of the other metazoan body plans: the evolution of larval forms - PMC
https://www.sciencedirect.com/...ticle/pii/S0960982219305342
https://www.sciencedirect.com/...ticle/pii/S1567133X19302054
JSTOR: Access Check

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1156 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-29-2023 12:42 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1158 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-29-2023 11:03 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1159 by Taq, posted 03-29-2023 11:46 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1162 of 1197 (909251)
03-30-2023 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1160 by Taq
03-29-2023 11:47 AM


Re: Typical?
Taqo writes:
Those are scientific theories, not stories.
I love your sense of humour!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1160 by Taq, posted 03-29-2023 11:47 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1166 by Taq, posted 03-30-2023 10:43 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1163 of 1197 (909253)
03-30-2023 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1159 by Taq
03-29-2023 11:46 AM


Re: Typical?
Taqo writes:
Name a novel body plan and novel organs.
Ever heard of the Cambrian explosion?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1159 by Taq, posted 03-29-2023 11:46 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1164 by AZPaul3, posted 03-30-2023 10:33 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1165 by Taq, posted 03-30-2023 10:42 AM Dredge has not replied

  
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