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Author Topic:   The Power of the New Intelligent Design...
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8613
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 1141 of 1197 (909091)
03-28-2023 4:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1140 by Dredge
03-28-2023 1:45 AM


Re: Typical?
Fossils can't tell us what happened or confirm any theory about what happened ...
BS. They have and they did.
This is a magic your gods have yet to master. Humans can see clearly into the past, manipulate the present and foretell the future. Your god is puny in comparison.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1140 by Dredge, posted 03-28-2023 1:45 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1147 by Dredge, posted 03-28-2023 12:30 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1142 of 1197 (909105)
03-28-2023 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1138 by Dredge
03-27-2023 6:24 PM


Re: Typical?
Dredge writes:
A gap in the Darwinian story ... a story I don't subscribe to.
What story?
All I know is life-forms changed over time - I don't know if they evolved from ancestors or not, so I don't look at the fossil record in terms of evolutionary ancestors.
Then look at them in terms of physical characteristics.
When we compare fossils we find that their characteristics form a tree-like pattern called a nested hierarchy. This is exactly what we would expect to see if life evolved from a common ancestor. Can you provide any reason why this isn't true?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1138 by Dredge, posted 03-27-2023 6:24 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1144 by Dredge, posted 03-28-2023 12:06 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 1145 by Dredge, posted 03-28-2023 12:09 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1143 of 1197 (909106)
03-28-2023 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1140 by Dredge
03-28-2023 1:45 AM


Re: Typical?
Dredge writes:
Fossils can't tell us what happened or confirm any theory about what happened ...
If life evolved from a common ancestor then fossils should form a nested hierarchy. Why can't we use fossils to test this prediction?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1140 by Dredge, posted 03-28-2023 1:45 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1146 by Dredge, posted 03-28-2023 12:25 PM Taq has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1144 of 1197 (909111)
03-28-2023 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1142 by Taq
03-28-2023 11:00 AM


Re: Typical?
Fossils can't tell us what caused the changes with fossilised nested hierarchies. Fossils can't even confirm that one fossil is the evolutionary ancestor of another fossil.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1142 by Taq, posted 03-28-2023 11:00 AM Taq has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1145 of 1197 (909114)
03-28-2023 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1142 by Taq
03-28-2023 11:00 AM


Re: Typical?
Taqo writes:
What story?
An atheist's favourite bedtime story ... UCD and how neo-Darwinian mechanisms produced the changes evident in the fossil record.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1142 by Taq, posted 03-28-2023 11:00 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1160 by Taq, posted 03-29-2023 11:47 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1146 of 1197 (909117)
03-28-2023 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1143 by Taq
03-28-2023 11:01 AM


Re: Typical?
Taqo writes:
If life evolved from a common ancestor then fossils should form a nested hierarchy. Why can't we use fossils to test this prediction?
What a pity the fossil record contradicts your theory of universal common descent. There are nested hierarchies alright, but they appear separately in the fossil record (mostly during the Cambriam explosion), not as part of your predicted single tree of common descent.
Your psychological need to believe in UCD (due to your atheism) prevents you from accepting what the fossil record shows. You keep mindlessly insisting that the fossil record reveals a single tree of UCD - Darwin's disproven nineteenth-century fantasy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1143 by Taq, posted 03-28-2023 11:01 AM Taq has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1147 of 1197 (909118)
03-28-2023 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1141 by AZPaul3
03-28-2023 4:03 AM


Re: Typical?
APauling666 writes:
BS. They have and they did.
For starters, fossils can't tell us what process produced the changes in life-forms evident in the fossil record. That's a fact you seem to have trouble accepting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1141 by AZPaul3, posted 03-28-2023 4:03 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1148 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 1:33 PM Dredge has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1148 of 1197 (909127)
03-28-2023 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1147 by Dredge
03-28-2023 12:30 PM


Re: Typical?
sludge writes:
For starters, fossils can't tell us what process produced the changes in life-forms evident in the fossil record
That's why we don't use fossils for that, instead we use genetics and developmental biology to tell us about the processes that produced those changes. The fossils show us that life changed over time. That's the cool thing about science, it guides us in our choices of which questions specific evidence answers.
That's a fact you seem to have trouble accepting.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1147 by Dredge, posted 03-28-2023 12:30 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1149 by Dredge, posted 03-28-2023 2:36 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1149 of 1197 (909137)
03-28-2023 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1148 by Tanypteryx
03-28-2023 1:33 PM


Re: Typical?
There are zero genetic examples of novel body plans and organs evolving.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1148 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 1:33 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1150 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 2:43 PM Dredge has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Inactive Member


Message 1150 of 1197 (909140)
03-28-2023 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1149 by Dredge
03-28-2023 2:36 PM


Re: Typical?
sludge writes:
There are zero genetic examples of novel body plans and organs evolving.
So? What's your point? Can you even describe a novel body plan or organ?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1149 by Dredge, posted 03-28-2023 2:36 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1151 by Dredge, posted 03-28-2023 3:37 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1151 of 1197 (909150)
03-28-2023 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1150 by Tanypteryx
03-28-2023 2:43 PM


Re: Typical?
Please explain how can you claim to understand how genetics produced novel body plans and organs when no one has ever observed such changes?
Have you slipped into "con-man" mode again?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1150 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 2:43 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1152 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 7:28 PM Dredge has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 1152 of 1197 (909164)
03-28-2023 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1151 by Dredge
03-28-2023 3:37 PM


Re: Typical?
Sludge writes:
Please explain how can you claim to understand how genetics produced novel body plans and organs when no one has ever observed such changes?
I have never made such a claim, so what's your point?
However we can and do observe descent with modification and it has been well documented for several centuries. Every single phylum has been, and is being studied by numerous researchers looking at every clade level and right on down to species level specialists, analyzing genes and biomolecules, development and life histories, selective forces, and fossil lineages and on a planet with 8 billion people that's a shitload of scientists studying every aspect of life. And all those different science's documented observations support descent with modification and we don't see any of those scientists pointing out how any living organisms are actually violating any of the rules governing how physics and chemistry works on planet earth.
The thing you guys always ignore is that every scientist wants to make a memorable discovery and no one would pass up the opportunity to be celebrated as the exposer of a massive fraud scheme that has been going on for 160 years and involving millions of scientists. And then there's all the physicists and chemists and geologists, etc. on planet Earth, that are also not pointing out discrepancies in the Theory of Evolution either.
I would still like to know, can you even describe a novel body plan or organ?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1151 by Dredge, posted 03-28-2023 3:37 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1153 by Dredge, posted 03-29-2023 12:28 AM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 1154 by Dredge, posted 03-29-2023 12:33 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1153 of 1197 (909172)
03-29-2023 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1152 by Tanypteryx
03-28-2023 7:28 PM


Re: Typical?
Dredge writes:
Please explain how can you claim to understand how genetics produced novel body plans and organs when no one has ever observed such changes?
Taqo writes:
I have never made such a claim
Really? Let me refresh your memory, from Message 1148
Dredge writes:
fossils can't tell us what process produced the changes in life-forms evident in the fossil record
Taqo writes:
That's why we don't use fossils for that, instead we use genetics and developmental biology to tell us about the processes that produced those changes

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1152 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 7:28 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1155 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-29-2023 12:38 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1154 of 1197 (909173)
03-29-2023 12:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1152 by Tanypteryx
03-28-2023 7:28 PM


Re: Typical?
Taqo writes:
I would still like to know, can you even describe a novel body plan or organ?
Lame. So when scientists discuss the evolution of novel body plans and organs, you've got idea what they're talking about?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1152 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-28-2023 7:28 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1156 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-29-2023 12:42 AM Dredge has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Inactive Member


Message 1155 of 1197 (909174)
03-29-2023 12:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1153 by Dredge
03-29-2023 12:28 AM


Re: Typical?
Like I said, I never made any claims about novel body plans or organs.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1153 by Dredge, posted 03-29-2023 12:28 AM Dredge has not replied

  
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