Testing The Christian Apologists

Sure - you just described subjective meaning again.One thing (church) doesn't work for everybody.
Another one thing (let's say: self actualization) also doesn't work for everybody.Because meaning is subjective.If meaning was objective - then the objective meaning would work for everybody. Just like objective tape measures work for everybody. Yes - again, that's exactly what subjective meaning is. You have yet to explain any "objective" meaning. All you've explained is some meaning from an external source (subjectively chosen by that external source) and called it objective. That's like mixing up the usage of their, there and they're... similar in a superficial way (at first glance,) but very different in actual functionality.It seems like you don't understand what is intended by the definition of the word 'objective:'

quote:

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OBJECTIVE: (of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

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Which means, if you're attempting to say that something from God is objective, that something has to not be influenced by God's feelings or opinions and be external to God as well.
If you want to claim that nothing is external to God... then nothing from God is objective. It's all subjective - according to God.
Something that's subjective, but from God doesn't turn into "objective" for us... it's simply external to us. But it's still subjective - according to God. That's not true. Perhaps you and I are. Perhaps most at this webpage even are. But not everybody. Many people couldn't care less about what you and I described as "greater truth." Almost true. Not more exciting. I actually find God more exciting than science. What's more exciting than magic and mystery?
I would say, though that science is more accurate and better at describing reality.
Religions tried it for thousands of years... and got basically no where.
Science tried it for a few hundred years... and created the Industrial Age and the Technological Age... which is pretty impressive. I would say church can be welcoming and safe for those who want to feel welcomed and safe as a priority.
However, if you know yourself and want stability and guidance in life and want to know the truth about reality as a priority - then church has shown itself to be very, very wrong and counter-productive. Science isn't "right" - but it is the best currently know about for getting as close as we can. And has shown itself to be way better than church at identifying the truth about reality. Where do you think your computer came from? Not "move on" but "allow reality to define reality as opposed to our personal opinions and biases." If you ever think that's nothing left to be discovered - then you must think you have an answer for everything.What sounds more like something who thinks they're a god?
-someone who thinks they have an answer for everything and there's no need to discover anything else?
-someone who thinks there's always more to be discovered, and they could be wrong?Careful - your arrogance is showing.

You're conflating emotions and meaning - they're not the same thing.If this life is all there is and life is the result of mindless evolution, human offspring have no more meaning than the offspring of bacteria or the offspring of mosquitoes or the offspring of worms.If this life is all there is and life is the result of mindless evolution, all organisms are just collections of molecules ... and molecules don't have any meaning. So living organisms have no more meaning than lifeless matter.

In your previous post you said "Christianity was about actions, about what we do and how we interact with other people" and that you gave it away bcoz of the actions of other Christians. That sounds like your faith was not based on Christ but on the actions of your fellow-Christians. That strikes me as a rather odd basis for Christian faith.Christianity is about loving God and placing your faith in Christ ... the actions of some of your fellow-Christians should be irrelevant. No wonder you didn't last.

It's not sad for me. My life has meaning because it isn't finite.

Bacteria, worms and mosquitos all have meaning. You are eqiovocating here.Define meaning.

What "meaning" is that?​If this life is there is and all life is the result of mindless evolution, bacteria, worms and mosquitos ... and humans ... have no more meaning than lifeless dust.

So you refuse to define meaning? Unless you tell us your definition of the word you have no argument.

This is an interesting and thoughtful reply from you, Stile. I wanted to respond back with further thoughts of my own, but in order to do so, allow me a bit of poetic license on subjective meanings of words used by you in this exchange...perhaps if nothing else but to inspire further reflection. Historically, does a King have subjects or do they have objects? Are the people subjective to a King or are they objective? Perhaps in granting humanity free will, God gave us the ability to be objective. We became free to determine our own objectives...even at the risk (to God) of rejecting Him. Historic dogma(apologetics) would say that God is not so much threatened by our rejection except for His concern of our destiny. Critics would ask why God cant simply make everyones destiny secure regardless of their freely given objective choice. I have no easy answer for that one yet. And yet you state that you *know* that God does not exist, whereas I would state that I *know* that He does. Both of us find Him exciting, though I would qualify that by saying that occasionally I find Him to be a bit scary and difficult to know since I believe that His standards are nearly impossible for me to accept (unless He makes a way for me).
Granted He has magic in that all things are possible with Him...just as all things would theoretically be possible with magic. And both of us can definitely agree on the mystery of it all. For you, there is no rational connection. For me, there must be a rational connection...or even an irrational one if that is how it is meant to be. I wont place all of my eggs in the science basket due to the belief that science alone wont solve all human problems. In fact, science might end up being so "logical" as to eliminate humans from future equations regarding purpose and destiny. AI could conceivably replace us. Only because I have a personal stake in the results of this experiment. Im not ready to casually toss away data in order to find more (as an easy replacement).

Prove it.

This sounds like you're attempting to use similar sounding words to make a point that doesn't exist. A King has subjects.
The people are subjective to the King.
The people have their own subjective meanings regardless of whatever the King wants.
That is, even if the King demands his subjects all dig the moat - the subjects that would rather be building bridges or creating paintings will find the King to be meaningless.Subjective meaning is still better than objective meaning.
Objective meaning still doesn't exist.I don't understand your line of thinking here, other than attempt to muddy the waters with similar sounding words without actually making a coherent point. We didn't so much "become" this way as we've "always been" this way for as long as we've been around.
And, again - all you've done is describe subjective meaning. "Determining our own objectives" is the exact definition of subjective meaning.Objective meaning would be, like "everyone wants to play baseball!" and, if everyone actually did want to play baseball, always and forever... then this meaning would be objective. Can you think of anything like that? Yeah. I know God doesn't exist just as I know magic doesn't exist.
We looked, and saw that it doesn't exist.
Everytime we investigate "magic" or "God-did-it" all we find are natural processes doing things naturally - no magic, no God, nothing to hint that magic might exist, nothing to suggest that God could exist. No one's asking you to put all your eggs in any basket - I don't.
All I do is observe reality - and, realistically, science has a way better track record than religion does for identifying reality and making progress.
So - if I want to identify reality and make progress - why would I go anywhere else?Just like when you drive anywhere - you don't shut your eyes and let Jesus take the wheel. You look as best you can to drive as safely as possible. See? Even YOU use science - when it matters. I'm not sure what you're attempting to say with this.
I'm not asking you to toss away data.
I'm asking to look at all the data you're ignoring.
I'm asking you to stop gambling on your feelings that you're about to "hit the big one!" (church/religion) and take a look at the actual odds you're ignoring that the house is always going to win (reality.)

Research equivocation. You are using different meanings of the word.

Fair point.Does your life have meaning?

Still waiting for you to define the word.

In the fullness of time I will prove it.Meanwhile, it can be proven philosophically that life has meaning only if it's eternal.