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Author Topic:   Exposing the evolution theory. Part 2
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 417 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 616 of 1104 (908767)
03-20-2023 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 615 by Taq
03-20-2023 12:12 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman:
And your own link about koalas and the retroviral infection these animals have may drive them to extinction.
Taq:
The exogenous retrovirus may drive them to extinction, not the endogenous ones.

You have over 200,000 endogenous retroviruses in your genome. This is a fact. You survive just fine with those ERV's

An endogenous retrovirus must start as an exogenous retrovirus causing an infection. Your own koala example demonstrates this and may drive them to extinction. Now you want to claim that a lineage can have 200,000 of these infections (even if each infection is separated by 10s, 100s, or 1000s of generations) and it never kills that lineage, even when the data shows the lethality of these viruses in a single generation. You and the authors of any papers making this claim are misinterpreting the data, just like you misinterpret the data of recombination.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 615 by Taq, posted 03-20-2023 12:12 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 617 by Taq, posted 03-20-2023 12:34 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 617 of 1104 (908768)
03-20-2023 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 616 by Kleinman
03-20-2023 12:30 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman writes:
Your own koala example demonstrates this and may drive them to extinction.
Some retroviruses may pose a serious threat to a species, others may not. It depends on the virus.
Now you want to claim that a lineage can have 200,000 of these infections (even if each infection is separated by 10s, 100s, or 1000s of generations) and it never kills that lineage,
You are living proof that this occurs. You have 203,000 ERVs in your genome.
You and the authors of any papers making this claim are misinterpreting the data, just like you misinterpret the data of recombination.
I'll stick with the experts on this one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 616 by Kleinman, posted 03-20-2023 12:30 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 618 by Kleinman, posted 03-20-2023 12:56 PM Taq has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 417 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 618 of 1104 (908770)
03-20-2023 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 617 by Taq
03-20-2023 12:34 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman:
Your own koala example demonstrates this and may drive them to extinction.
Taq:
Some retroviruses may pose a serious threat to a species, others may not. It depends on the virus.

So what is your claim now? Only 100,000 of the 200,000 infections pose a serious threat? Or 50,000? Or 25,000? It only takes one to be a serious threat, and your koala example shows it only takes one.
Kleinman:
Now you want to claim that a lineage can have 200,000 of these infections (even if each infection is separated by 10s, 100s, or 1000s of generations) and it never kills that lineage,
Taq:
You are living proof that this occurs. You have 203,000 ERVs in your genome.

It would never enter your mind that none of these sequences are the result of retroviral infection. Don't humans and chimpanzees have sequences that control DNA transcription?
Kleinman:
You and the authors of any papers making this claim are misinterpreting the data, just like you misinterpret the data of recombination.
Taq:
I'll stick with the experts on this one.

Do you mean those so-called experts that can't explain the physics and mathematics of biological evolution and fail to explain why drug resistance evolves and cancer treatments fail? Your so-called experts are failures that don't understand that a single retrovirus infection can be fatal to a lineage.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 617 by Taq, posted 03-20-2023 12:34 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 619 by Taq, posted 03-20-2023 1:07 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 619 of 1104 (908772)
03-20-2023 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 618 by Kleinman
03-20-2023 12:56 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman writes:
Only 100,000 of the 200,000 infections pose a serious threat? Or 50,000? Or 25,000? It only takes one to be a serious threat, and your koala example shows it only takes one.
Are you dying because of the 203,000 endogenous retroviruses in your genome? No?
It would never enter your mind that none of these sequences are the result of retroviral infection.
That's like a defense attorney trying to convince the jury that fingerprints at a crime scene never came from his defendant's fingers. They aren't even fingerprints, they are just some swirly marks that leprechauns made, right?
Do you mean those so-called experts that can't explain the physics and mathematics of biological evolution and fail to explain why drug resistance evolves and cancer treatments fail? Your so-called experts are failures that don't understand that a single retrovirus infection can be fatal to a lineage.
You don't even understand how the basics of meiosis work. Sorry, but I will go with the experts on the Human Genome project, all of whom have way more knowledge and experience than you do. We could even go with the guy who wrote the textbook on retroviruses:
quote:
Given the size of vertebrate genomes (>1 × 109 bp) and the random nature of retroviral integration (22, 23), multiple integrations (and subsequent fixation) of ERV loci at precisely the same location are highly unlikely (24). Therefore, an ERV locus shared by two or more species is descended from a single integration event and is proof that the species share a common ancestor into whose germ line the original integration took place (14).
Just a moment...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 618 by Kleinman, posted 03-20-2023 12:56 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 620 by Kleinman, posted 03-20-2023 1:41 PM Taq has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 417 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 620 of 1104 (908780)
03-20-2023 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 619 by Taq
03-20-2023 1:07 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman:
Only 100,000 of the 200,000 infections pose a serious threat? Or 50,000? Or 25,000? It only takes one to be a serious threat, and your koala example shows it only takes one.
Taq:
Are you dying because of the 203,000 endogenous retroviruses in your genome? No?

Taq, you don't know if the sequences are the result of retroviral infections. All you have demonstrated is that a single retroviral infection can be fatal to a lineage with your koala example.
Kleinman:
It would never enter your mind that none of these sequences are the result of retroviral infection.
Taq:
That's like a defense attorney trying to convince the jury that fingerprints at a crime scene never came from his defendant's fingers. They aren't even fingerprints, they are just some swirly marks that leprechauns made, right?

Are you claiming that you have an exact match? Not a base differs between humans and chimpanzees? And all these examples are retroviral infections despite the fact that a single retroviral infection can be lethal to a lineage? You are seeing the wrong fingerprints.
Kleinman:
Do you mean those so-called experts that can't explain the physics and mathematics of biological evolution and fail to explain why drug resistance evolves and cancer treatments fail? Your so-called experts are failures that don't understand that a single retrovirus infection can be fatal to a lineage.
Taq:
You don't even understand how the basics of meiosis work. Sorry, but I will go with the experts on the Human Genome project, all of whom have way more knowledge and experience than you do. We could even go with the guy who wrote the textbook on retroviruses:

You wish I don't understand how meiosis works. Your so-called expert doesn't understand that a single retrovirus infection can be lethal to a lineage. Your koala example demonstrates this, HIV demonstrates this, and many other retrovirus infections demonstrate this. Now you want us to believe that a lineage can get 200,000 retroviral infections (or 100,000, or 50,000, or you name it) and the lineage survives just fine. You need to learn the physics and mathematics of biological evolution and how biological competition, descent with modification and adaptation, and recombination works. And so does that author that writes a textbook that makes irrational claims. Why can't you explain how drug resistance evolves or why cancer treatments fail? Or why can't biologists explain how the Kishony and Lenski biological evolutionary experiments work? You are too busy hooked on this idea that a lineage can get thousands of retrovirus infections and everything is just fine. You and your so-called experts are wrong!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 619 by Taq, posted 03-20-2023 1:07 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 621 by Taq, posted 03-20-2023 2:54 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 621 of 1104 (908791)
03-20-2023 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 620 by Kleinman
03-20-2023 1:41 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman writes:
Taq, you don't know if the sequences are the result of retroviral infections.
We know that ERV's are the result of retroviral infections in the same way that we know fingerprints are the product of fingers.
You wish I don't understand how meiosis works.
You don't understand how meiosis works. You can't understand how alleles in two different genes relate to one another in sexually reproducing species. Can you even tell us what the difference is between unlinked and linked genes?
Your so-called expert doesn't understand that a single retrovirus infection can be lethal to a lineage.
What's the mortality rate for adenoviral infections?
What's the mortality rate for HTLV-1 infections?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 620 by Kleinman, posted 03-20-2023 1:41 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 622 by Kleinman, posted 03-20-2023 3:43 PM Taq has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 417 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 622 of 1104 (908800)
03-20-2023 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 621 by Taq
03-20-2023 2:54 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman:
Taq, you don't know if the sequences are the result of retroviral infections.
Taq:
We know that ERV's are the result of retroviral infections in the same way that we know fingerprints are the product of fingers.

It is very easy to duplicate a fingerprint. All you have shown is that a single retroviral infection can be fatal to a lineage.
Kleinman:
You wish I don't understand how meiosis works.
Taq:
You don't understand how meiosis works. You can't understand how alleles in two different genes relate to one another in sexually reproducing species. Can you even tell us what the difference is between unlinked and linked genes?

If you know so much about alleles, explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail. Explain why combination therapy works in the vast majority of cases despite the fact that many of these replicators do recombination. If you actually had an understanding of biological evolution, you could do this.
Kleinman:
Your so-called expert doesn't understand that a single retrovirus infection can be lethal to a lineage.
Taq:
What's the mortality rate for adenoviral infections?

What's the mortality rate for HTLV-1 infections?

You should know that adenovirus is not a retrovirus that normally causes mild symptoms but can kill under some circumstances. HTLV-1 is a retrovirus that is oncogenic. So, what is your point? Are you going to claim that a lineage can get 200,000 HTLV-1 infections and the lineage is just fine? There are lots of viruses that can be incorporated into the human genome, you can start with the herpes family. They cause many problems such as recurrent herpes cold sores, shingles, or recurrent Epstein-Barr infections (usually called Mononucleosis). But your claim for retroviruses is that they get incorporated into germ cells where viral infections in the early stages of pregnancy are oftentimes catastrophic for the fetus because they disrupt the differentiation process. I'm surprised that a virologist understands so little about what viruses do to their host.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 621 by Taq, posted 03-20-2023 2:54 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 623 by Taq, posted 03-20-2023 3:54 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 623 of 1104 (908801)
03-20-2023 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 622 by Kleinman
03-20-2023 3:43 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman writes:
All you have shown is that a single retroviral infection can be fatal to a lineage
I have 203,000 examples of non-lethal ERVs.
Kleinman writes:
If you know so much about alleles, explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.
Already did that in this thread:
https://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&t=20319
You should know that adenovirus is not a retrovirus that normally causes mild symptoms but can kill under some circumstances.
It also occasionally inserts into the genome. HTLV-1 is a retrovirus, and in most cases is asymptomatic.
Are you going to claim that a lineage can get 200,000 HTLV-1 infections and the lineage is just fine?
I have 203,000 pieces of evidence that it can.
But your claim for retroviruses is that they get incorporated into germ cells where viral infections in the early stages of pregnancy are oftentimes catastrophic for the fetus because they disrupt the differentiation process.
Koala embryonic development is not disrupted by the presence of these retroviruses. Your embryonic development was not interrupted by the 203,000 ERVs in your genome.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 622 by Kleinman, posted 03-20-2023 3:43 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 624 by Kleinman, posted 03-20-2023 5:09 PM Taq has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 417 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 624 of 1104 (908807)
03-20-2023 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 623 by Taq
03-20-2023 3:54 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman:
All you have shown is that a single retroviral infection can be fatal to a lineage
Taq:
I have 203,000 examples of non-lethal ERVs.

This argument would convince anyone that had no idea what a virus does to its host, especially when the infection is in a germ cell.
Kleinman:
If you know so much about alleles, explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.
Taq:
Already did that in this thread:
https://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&t=20319

You should publish it because biologists don't know how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.
Kleinman:
You should know that adenovirus is not a retrovirus that normally causes mild symptoms but can kill under some circumstances.
Taq:
It also occasionally inserts into the genome. HTLV-1 is a retrovirus, and in most cases is asymptomatic.

Does adenovirus insert into the genome of a germ cell, and what does it do to that developing child? It only takes one case to be symptomatic, and what do viral infections do to a germ cell? Have you ever seen the birth defects of a child that contracts a viral infection in the womb? And now you want to claim that a germ cell line can get 200,000 infections and the lineage is just fine.
Kleinman:
Are you going to claim that a lineage can get 200,000 HTLV-1 infections and the lineage is just fine?
Taq:
I have 203,000 pieces of evidence that it can.

Does that evidence include what a retrovirus is doing to koalas, or what HIV does to humans?
Kleinman:
But your claim for retroviruses is that they get incorporated into germ cells where viral infections in the early stages of pregnancy are oftentimes catastrophic for the fetus because they disrupt the differentiation process.
Taq:
Koala embryonic development is not disrupted by the presence of these retroviruses. Your embryonic development was not interrupted by the 203,000 ERVs in your genome.

Then, why are koalas threatened with extinction because of their retroviral infection? The author of the paper said this was a possibility. And you still haven't explained how a germ cell lineage can get 203,000 retroviral infections and the lineage does just fine. I expect your explanation will be just as good as your explanation of how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 623 by Taq, posted 03-20-2023 3:54 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 625 by Taq, posted 03-21-2023 6:02 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 625 of 1104 (908828)
03-21-2023 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 624 by Kleinman
03-20-2023 5:09 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman writes:
This argument would convince anyone that had no idea what a virus does to its host, especially when the infection is in a germ cell.
You are the one who has no idea what the virus does to the host. For example:
"But your claim for retroviruses is that they get incorporated into germ cells where viral infections in the early stages of pregnancy are oftentimes catastrophic for the fetus because they disrupt the differentiation process."
Koalas with recently inserted ERVs are not born with catastrophic birth defects.
You are wrong.
Then, why are koalas threatened with extinction because of their retroviral infection?
They are threatened with extinction because of the EXOGENOUS retrovirus, not the endogenous retrovirus. The retrovirus is currently being spread like any other virus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 624 by Kleinman, posted 03-20-2023 5:09 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 626 by Kleinman, posted 03-22-2023 9:59 AM Taq has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 417 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 626 of 1104 (908863)
03-22-2023 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 625 by Taq
03-21-2023 6:02 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman:
This argument would convince anyone that had no idea what a virus does to its host, especially when the infection is in a germ cell.
Taq:
You are the one who has no idea what the virus does to the host. For example:

"But your claim for retroviruses is that they get incorporated into germ cells where viral infections in the early stages of pregnancy are oftentimes catastrophic for the fetus because they disrupt the differentiation process."

Koalas with recently inserted ERVs are not born with catastrophic birth defects.

You are wrong.

Are you really a virologist? Do you really understand what a virus does to a host cell? Why don't you tell the readers that a virus is an incomplete replicator that in order to replicate, must infect a host cell, use the host cell's DNA mechanisms to complement its own genetics in order to replicate, and in the process, kills the host cell? And if the host cell is a germ cell, the germ cell is dead, and you don't get any birth defects in a dead cell. Infant koalas aren't getting any birth defects, they are dying long before that, threatening the population with extinction.
Kleinman:
Then, why are koalas threatened with extinction because of their retroviral infection?
Taq:
They are threatened with extinction because of the EXOGENOUS retrovirus, not the endogenous retrovirus. The retrovirus is currently being spread like any other virus.

You really aren't thinking clearly. For your story to work, an endogenous retrovirus must start out as an exogenous retrovirus that kills its host cell in order for the virus to survive and replicate. And if the host cell is a germ cell, the germ cell does not survive to differentiate and produce an adult. And now you want to claim that 203,000 exogenous retroviruses infect a germ cell lineage, but they don't do it to replicate and ultimately kill the germ cell, they incorporate into the host genome. You have given a very poor explanation of what these genetic sequences are being seen in the human and chimpanzee genomes. As a virologist, you should understand what a virus does to a host cell but instead, you make this totally illogical argument.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 625 by Taq, posted 03-21-2023 6:02 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 627 by Taq, posted 03-22-2023 10:42 AM Kleinman has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(3)
Message 627 of 1104 (908865)
03-22-2023 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 626 by Kleinman
03-22-2023 9:59 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman writes:
And if the host cell is a germ cell, the germ cell is dead, and you don't get any birth defects in a dead cell. Infant koalas aren't getting any birth defects, they are dying long before that, threatening the population with extinction.
Koalas are born with the ERVs from a currently active exogenous retrovirus. This is a fact. Deny it all you want, that fact still exists.
For your story to work, an endogenous retrovirus must start out as an exogenous retrovirus that kills its host cell in order for the virus to survive and replicate. And if the host cell is a germ cell, the germ cell does not survive to differentiate and produce an adult.
Koalas are born with the ERVs from a currently circulating exogenous retrovirus. Obviously, the germ cells with these insertions are functioning just fine, as is embryonic development. You are wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 626 by Kleinman, posted 03-22-2023 9:59 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 628 by Kleinman, posted 03-22-2023 1:38 PM Taq has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 417 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 628 of 1104 (908873)
03-22-2023 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 627 by Taq
03-22-2023 10:42 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman:
And if the host cell is a germ cell, the germ cell is dead, and you don't get any birth defects in a dead cell. Infant koalas aren't getting any birth defects, they are dying long before that, threatening the population with extinction.
Taq:
Koalas are born with the ERVs from a currently active exogenous retrovirus. This is a fact. Deny it all you want, that fact still exists.

You sound like the layman ringo when you say "This is a fact." What is a fact is that the survival of a germ cell with a single retroviral infection is questionable. And you claim a germ cell line can survive 203,000 retroviral infections and the germ cell line does just fine. Stick with laymen like ringo when you make claims like that.
Kleinman:
For your story to work, an endogenous retrovirus must start out as an exogenous retrovirus that kills its host cell in order for the virus to survive and replicate. And if the host cell is a germ cell, the germ cell does not survive to differentiate and produce an adult.
Taq:
Koalas are born with the ERVs from a currently circulating exogenous retrovirus. Obviously, the germ cells with these insertions are functioning just fine, as is embryonic development. You are wrong.

ringo might believe your claim because he doesn't understand how viruses replicate and then kill their host cell. Exogenous retroviruses have to infect the germ cell, not just currently circulating in Koalas that are born, because they are just in somatic cells, not germ cells. This is a fact.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 627 by Taq, posted 03-22-2023 10:42 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 629 by Taq, posted 03-22-2023 5:18 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 629 of 1104 (908893)
03-22-2023 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 628 by Kleinman
03-22-2023 1:38 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman writes:
You sound like the layman ringo when you say "This is a fact."
It is a fact that ERV's from KoRV insertions (an active exogenous retrovirus) are being vertically inherited in koalas.
quote:
KoRVs, on the other hand, can be transmitted both vertically and horizontally [5, 7, 13–16].
Koala retrovirus epidemiology, transmission mode, pathogenesis, and host immune response in koalas (Phascolarctos cinereus): a review - PMC
What are you not understanding here? ERVs from the active retrovirus are known to be passed on vertically. This is found all over the literature.
Are you denying that ERVs from the currently active exogenous KoRV retrovirus exist in koalas? If so, we can start discussing that evidence.
Added in edit:
quote:
On the basis of these data, KoRV seemed more like an exogenous, rather than endogenous, virus. Although no standard definition of an endogenous virus exists, most sources agree that they must be integrated into germ-line tissue and passed on to offspring as a mendelian allele2. Two methods were used to confirm KoRV integration into germ-line tissue. Single-cell fluorescent PCR of koala sperm was performed in order to eliminate the possibility of lysed blood or somatic cell contamination yielding false PCR positives, and this confirmed that KoRV was present in koala germ cells (Supplementary Fig. 1c). This result was supported by fluorescence in situ hybridization (FISH) analysis of koala whole sperm with a KoRV-specific probe. (Supplementary Fig. 1d).
Given the presence of KoRV in germ-line cells, we investigated family lineages for inheritance of specific insert patterns. Southern blotting of HindIII-digested DNA extracted from blood cells of related animals from a captive colony and hybridization with the KoRV env probe (Fig. 2a) demonstrated that these animals showed a higher degree of insert pattern similarity than unrelated animals (compare with Fig. 1b). Banding patterns in the offspring (Fig. 2b) were found to be a combination of parental patterns, with some bands being inherited across three generations. The viral insert pattern did not vary across tissues in an individual, further indicating that the virus was endogenous (Fig. 2c).
Retroviral invasion of the koala genome | Nature
So not only did they confirm the presence of the ERVs in the DNA genomes of germ line cells, they also confirmed that the same ERVs are found at the same positin in the genome in multiple generations. These are vertically inherited KoRV insertions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 628 by Kleinman, posted 03-22-2023 1:38 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 630 by Kleinman, posted 03-22-2023 7:19 PM Taq has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 417 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 630 of 1104 (908896)
03-22-2023 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 629 by Taq
03-22-2023 5:18 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman:
You sound like the layman ringo when you say "This is a fact."
Taq:
It is a fact that ERV's from KoRV insertions (an active exogenous retrovirus) are being vertically inherited in koalas.

Viruses can be incorporated into the host genome in some cells. Anyone that has chicken pox and then gets shingles will know that. These incorporated viruses can reactivate and still cause disease. This explains why HIV cannot be cured and if HIV patients stop treatment, they relapse. You can't explain how a germ cell line gets 203,000 retroviral infections but the lineage does just fine, however, you present an example where koalas get a single retroviral infection and it may drive koalas extinct. You don't know, and you see what you want to see. That is not the scientific method.
How does a germ cell line get 203,000 retroviral infections? The germ cell line must have receptors on the surface of the cell that the virus can bind to and enter the cell. And the virus does not replicate itself, it just enters the genome. No viral replication, and no host cell death, and it has to happen 203,000 times according to your claim. I think you and the research you are quoting are mistaking host genetic sequences that control the transcription of DNA with viral DNA. Superficially the sequences may appear the same but the belief that our germ cell line has been infected 203,000 times by retroviruses ignores the fact of what these viruses do to their host. The retrovirus that is infecting koalas could certainly be incorporated into the koalas' genome but it is also killing them. You are being illogical when you claim that it can happen 203,000 times without driving the lineage to extinction. These viruses survive by killing their host cells, this is a fact.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 629 by Taq, posted 03-22-2023 5:18 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 631 by Taq, posted 03-23-2023 12:47 PM Kleinman has replied

  
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