|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,767 Year: 4,024/9,624 Month: 895/974 Week: 222/286 Day: 29/109 Hour: 2/3 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: The Power of the New Intelligent Design... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8
|
It has already been defined for you, multiple times. Here it is again;
quote: That is the definition of nested hierarchy we are using. It's the definition used by biologists. No other definition is relevant. Everyone can see what you're doing. No-one is impressed by your immature antics or your lame excuses. Everyone can see you twisting in the wind, unable to address the issue in any way, but too arrogant to admit it. You are simply too scared to really address the evidence, because deep down, you sense that you are out of your depth and that you have no argument. You want definitions, buy a dictionary. Mutate and SurviveOn two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
You still have not defined hierarchy. I am perfectly content with the quick definition given by AZPaul3 in Message 978 AZPaul3 writes: Hierarchy: Any system of things ranked one above another. In evolution a nested hierarchy is shown by population groups that emerge as offspring from earlier population groups. And Taq gave you a more detailed explanation of what we mean by nested hierarchy as well, which I made clear I agreed with. Now you can take issue with these definitions if you wish, but pretending they were never given is simply a lie and rather a pointless one as well, since it's all there in black and white. Well, white and blue. You know what I mean. Let's try another tack; how do you define "nested hierarchy". (AbE) Or alternatively, how do you define "definition"? Serious question, not a joke, how do you define "definition"? Because you keep being given them and you keep complaining, so obviously your idea of a definition is different to ours, so let's have it; what are you asking for exactly? Mutate and SurviveOn two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
What do you care if he attacks creationism? You're not a creationist are you? You are a neutral minded observer, not dragged down by biases like everyone else. Right? That's what you were trying to imply here;
sensei writes: What does it matter where I stand? Science is based on data. And here;
sensei writes: I don't care about which model is prettiest or whatever. Only relevent question is, which is correct. What do attacks on creationism matter to an impartial observer such as yourself? Mutate and SurviveOn two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8
|
How do you measure rank in biology? For the purpose of testing the hypothesis of common ancestry, we would look at the proposed evolutionary relationships between organisms and compare that to a ranking based on observations such as morphology or genetic similarities. If those measures produce groups within groups within groups within groups, that would constitute a nested hierarchy, in accordance with the predictions of the ToE, and that would provide evidence for an evolutionary relationship. If we instead saw specific traits distributed across groups, with no nested hierarchies, that would falsify common ancestry. We don't see that though. There are thousands of biologists doing exactly this every day, using derived traits and genetic comparisons to create phylogenetic trees and so far, not a single one of them has shown any violation of nested hierarchy that would be sufficient to falsify the common ancestry of all life or the ToE in general.
Taq described nested hierarchy without defining it, and without defining hierarchy in particular even. If you can't define it, then just say so. Tangle has just given you this definition;
quote: For the record, I agree with this one too. Mutate and SurviveOn two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
You're talking to yourself again sensei. More so than usual I mean.
Mutate and SurviveOn two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
Observing patterns in one group of species is hardly sufficient evidence for the nested tree that you draw from your universal common ancestry hypothesis. It is if that "group of species" is all life.
So no, we have not observed nested hierarchy anywhere higher up, anywhere at significant high enough levels where it really counts. Can you tell us where it breaks down then? Which group of species is such a poor fit for a nested hierarchy? Is there any example which would falsify the notion? Mutate and Survive On two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8
|
Granny Magda writes: if you want these ideas to be taken seriously in the scientific world, Dredge writes: Satan will not allow the scientific world to take creationism and ID seriously. Sure. Invoking Satan is the way to be taken seriously in science. Mutate and SurviveOn two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8
|
Science is too puny and shallow to even detect Satan's existence. So science can't detect supernatural entities, got it. So much for the power of intelligent design then. Mutate and SurviveOn two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8
|
You're the one who reckons that science can't detect Satan. ID claims to be science. So according to you, ID cannot detect Satan, being "too puny". So it would seem to follow that if they can't detect Satan, they are not going to be able to detect God either, which rather defeats the point of ID.
According to your logic, if the ID crowd think they've detected design, it can't be God. Mutate and SurviveOn two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024