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Author Topic:   When Fascism Comes To America
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(3)
Message 166 of 303 (908335)
03-11-2023 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by Granny Magda
03-11-2023 8:21 AM


Re: Above Down Inside Out
Granny Magda writes:
They couldn't give a monkey's about Marxism. They don't seem to me to have any great commitment to any specific ideology. They might be best described as State Capitalist, but ultimately, [they are] simply self-serving, cynically pursuing whatever policy will most benefit their own elite.
MAGA!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Granny Magda, posted 03-11-2023 8:21 AM Granny Magda has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 167 of 303 (908338)
03-11-2023 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by xongsmith
03-10-2023 11:34 PM


In Brief:
There are too damn many anarchists!
Moving along...
Throwing definitions around to see if any of them stick:
Diffen:
Libertarianism vs. Totalitarianism
(Wiki) Libertarianism is a political philosophy that upholds liberty as its principal objective. Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association, and the primacy of individual judgement. Totalitarianism is a political system in which the state holds total authority over the society and seeks to control all aspects of public and private life wherever possible.
Originally, such ideas were classic liberalism...until the definitions of liberalism began to change after WWII.
Encyclopedia Britannica:
In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, many liberals began to worry that persistent inequalities of income and wealth and the tremendous pace of social change were undermining democracy and threatening other classical liberal values, such as the right to moral autonomy. Fearful of what they considered a new despotism of the wealthy, modern liberals advocated government regulation of markets and major industries, heavier taxation of the rich, the legalization of trade unions, and the introduction of various government-funded social services, such as mandatory accident insurance. Some have regarded the modern liberals’ embrace of increased government power as a repudiation of the classical liberal belief in limited government, but others have seen it as a reconsideration of the kinds of power required by government to protect the individual rights that liberals believe in.
The new liberalism was exemplified by the English philosophers L.T. Hobhouse and T.H. Green, who argued that democratic governments should aim to advance the general welfare by providing direct services and benefits to citizens. (It was you neo Liberals who naively believed that money could be endlessly "printed" and created out of thin air. The value is not in the hands of the government but in the hands of private property and business! )
Meanwhile, however, classical liberals such as the English philosopher Herbert Spencer insisted that the welfare of the poor and the middle classes would be best served by free markets and minimal government. In the 20th century, so-called welfare state liberalism, or social democracy, emerged as the dominant form of liberalism, and the term liberalism itself underwent a significant change in definition in English-speaking countries. Particularly after World War II, most self-described liberals no longer supported completely free markets and minimal government, though they continued to champion other individual rights, such as the right to freedom of speech. As liberalism became increasingly associated with government intervention in the economy and social-welfare programs, some classical liberals abandoned the old term and began to call themselves “libertarians.”

(FYI, I am in favor of private property rights, limited government(we don't need to pay a guy tax money to study Dragonflies )
Im much closer to Classic Liberalism (Libertarianism) than I will ever be to Neo Liberalism! Those yayhoos are trying to break everything down and take what we have earned! They then cry "racism" like scared offended little bitches whenever we protest.
And as for the Anarchist with the cigarette?
Time Magazine:
‘Freedom’ Means Something Different to Liberals and Conservatives. Here’s How the Definition Split—And Why That Still Matters

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by xongsmith, posted 03-10-2023 11:34 PM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by xongsmith, posted 03-11-2023 9:46 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 170 by xongsmith, posted 03-13-2023 4:33 PM Phat has replied
 Message 171 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-13-2023 6:10 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


(1)
Message 168 of 303 (908346)
03-11-2023 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Phat
03-11-2023 3:29 PM


Re: In Brief:
Phat at the end asks:
And as for the Anarchist with the cigarette?
oh, that's just the last line Bob Dylan says at the end of "Dont Look Back", a documentary by Pennebaker.
His agent Albert Grossman and Bob Neuwirth are discussing the articles in the papers in their crowded
backseat and they announce that according to the papers, he's an anarchist. They argue that the Communists
aren't held in disfavor in England, so the papers had to come up with something else. Viola' ==> the Anarchist!
Then the Anarchist asks for the cigarette as they continue on through the streets of London.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Phat, posted 03-11-2023 3:29 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 169 of 303 (908367)
03-13-2023 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Phat
03-10-2023 7:17 PM


Re: Above Down Inside Out
Phat writes:
China is both Communist and Fascist.
You said that you wanted to define what communism is, and you gave this definition:
"While communism is a system based around a theory of economic equality and advocates for a classless society,"
You then said:
"China does not have a classless society."
By your definition, China is not communist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Phat, posted 03-10-2023 7:17 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 170 of 303 (908374)
03-13-2023 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Phat
03-11-2023 3:29 PM


Re: In Brief:
Phat includes this comment:
we don't need to pay a guy tax money to study Dragonflies
BULLFUCKINGSHIT!
You don't have the education to even make such a comment!
You just accept what you're told here. Sit back down in your MTG chair.
Ignorance is ruining the country!
The NSF decides how they want to divide the tiny funds set aside for science - but even they are corruptible.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Phat, posted 03-11-2023 3:29 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by Phat, posted 03-14-2023 8:48 AM xongsmith has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(4)
Message 171 of 303 (908375)
03-13-2023 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Phat
03-11-2023 3:29 PM


Re: In Brief:
Phat writes:
(FYI, I am in favor of private property rights, limited government(we don't need to pay a guy tax money to study Dragonflies)
I assume this jibe was aimed at me. I have never been funded to study dragonflies with any public money. I was an entomologist working at a government agency studying invasive woodboring insects that threaten our forests and orchards. I also worked on specific invasive species including the Emerald Ash Borer, Japanese Beetle, Brown Marmorated Stinkbug, Spotted winged Drosophila, Sirex noctillio, and Asian Longhorned Beetle.
I have funded every single aspect of my study of dragonflies out of my own pocket!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Phat, posted 03-11-2023 3:29 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Theodoric, posted 03-13-2023 7:10 PM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 173 by AZPaul3, posted 03-13-2023 7:21 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 172 of 303 (908382)
03-13-2023 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Tanypteryx
03-13-2023 6:10 PM


Re: In Brief:
Fucking Emerald Ash Borer, I have 20 acres of Ash that will be dead in 10 years.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-13-2023 6:10 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-13-2023 8:21 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 175 by Omnivorous, posted 03-13-2023 9:21 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(6)
Message 173 of 303 (908384)
03-13-2023 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Tanypteryx
03-13-2023 6:10 PM


Re: In Brief:
Hired scientist collects salary. Film at 11.
"An affront to all working taxpayers," says grocery clerk.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-13-2023 6:10 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(2)
Message 174 of 303 (908387)
03-13-2023 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by Theodoric
03-13-2023 7:10 PM


Re: In Brief:
Yep! It was discovered here a few months ago.
A few years ago we lost a beautiful birch in our yard to the Bronze Birch Borer. They are both Buprestids (Jewel Beetles) and quite attractive metallic colored beetles with no natural specialist parasites found in North America to control them and spaying has no effect on the larval stage eating away inside the trees. The first time you realize something is wrong is when branches start dying.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Theodoric, posted 03-13-2023 7:10 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(3)
Message 175 of 303 (908392)
03-13-2023 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by Theodoric
03-13-2023 7:10 PM


Re: In Brief:
We have some predominantly wooded acreage in the southern Adirondacks, now mostly beech, maple, hemlock and ash, with some nice stands of black cherry.
The ash is dead or dying, the beech is diseased but perpetually sprouting, and the hemlocks are magnificent but their adelgid doom is probably just a matter of time. Only the cherry and maples are truly thriving.
Eternal hope: There are some timber sized beeches with no sign of the bark disease, potentially resistant: I collect nuts from those trees and just dibble plant them as I hike. I'm hoping to plant American hazelnuts to help replace the beechnuts for the critters.
The area is locally referred to as Oak Mountain, but the oaks are long gone.
Air and water quality are excellent, amphibians and native pollinators (and dragonflies!) are thriving. I've spotted hard-to-find orchids growing along streamsides. I worry always about the large migratory bird population in these mistimed, shifting seasons, and the invasives that climate change and global trade have delivered.
Even the forests we aren't leveling are under heavy assault. I'm tired of watching trees die.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence


This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Theodoric, posted 03-13-2023 7:10 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 176 of 303 (908398)
03-14-2023 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by xongsmith
03-13-2023 4:33 PM


Re: In Brief:
xongsmith writes:
You don't have the education to even make such a comment!
You just accept what you're told here. Sit back down in your MTG chair.
Whats an MTG chair?
As for my education, I agree that it is not formal. I have no degrees.
Tanypteryx writes:
I was an entomologist working at a government agency studying invasive woodboring insects that threaten our forests and orchards. I also worked on specific invasive species including the Emerald Ash Borer, Japanese Beetle, Brown Marmorated Stinkbug, Spotted winged Drosophila, Sirex noctillio, and Asian Longhorned Beetle.I have funded every single aspect of my study of dragonflies out of my own pocket!
I retract my thoughtless comment. You most definitely have earned a salary no matter who pays it. Perhaps you can help Theodoric save his trees. I couldn't think of anyone better to call.
Truth be told, I envy many of the peanut gallerys educational credentials.
xongsmith writes:
Ignorance is ruining the country!
I agree, though I would add that there are people with lots of education (Powell and Yellin) who don't know their arse from a hole in the ground. Sit back and watch them continue to ruin our financial system!
The peanut gallery will soon find out if I am simply a legend in my own mind who thinks he knows everything or whether I am an old man with wild erratic blood sugar swings, no formal education, and too conservative to have a heart for the future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by xongsmith, posted 03-13-2023 4:33 PM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Theodoric, posted 03-14-2023 9:02 AM Phat has replied
 Message 198 by xongsmith, posted 03-16-2023 10:29 PM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 177 of 303 (908400)
03-14-2023 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by Phat
03-14-2023 8:48 AM


Re: In Brief:
Why do think you know better than Powell or Yellin.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Phat, posted 03-14-2023 8:48 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Phat, posted 03-14-2023 9:19 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 178 of 303 (908404)
03-14-2023 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by Theodoric
03-14-2023 9:02 AM


Re: In Brief:
Call it intuition.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Theodoric, posted 03-14-2023 9:02 AM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-14-2023 10:50 AM Phat has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 179 of 303 (908408)
03-14-2023 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by Phat
03-14-2023 9:19 AM


Re: In Brief:
Call it intuition.
In other words, ignorance.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Phat, posted 03-14-2023 9:19 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Phat, posted 03-14-2023 2:12 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 180 of 303 (908409)
03-14-2023 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Tanypteryx
03-14-2023 10:50 AM


Re: In Brief:
In other words, ignorance.
No. I stand by this one. China has been playing the long game with America for 50 years. Our esteemed financial geniuses have been duped.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-14-2023 10:50 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-14-2023 4:20 PM Phat has replied
 Message 199 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-17-2023 12:42 PM Phat has not replied

  
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