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Author Topic:   The War in Europe
Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 930 of 995 (908355)
03-12-2023 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 929 by Percy
03-12-2023 12:40 PM


Re: Military Industrial Complex
Percy writes:
Do you remember an old book called All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten: Uncommon Thoughts on Common Things? One of the things learned is honesty.
And I try and be honest as much as I can. I remember that book. Here were the other things. Lets go down the list and compare the list with the world we see, the ideologies we discuss and those we embrace:
  • Share everything This is perhaps the major sticking point between the Republicans and the Democrats. In my mind, the Democrats want to legislate that the Reublicans MUST share. The Republicans by and large value freedom to share over demands to embrace equality and equity.
  • Play fair. So lets discuss whats fair. You guys first.
  • Don't hit people. (Im too old to hit very hard and too scared to get hit by hangry young homeless people, so I try and talk with them rather than hate on them. My verbal skills are a two edged sword. I save my ranting for online. I NEVER rant in public!
  • Put things back where you found them.
    To be continued.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 929 by Percy, posted 03-12-2023 12:40 PM Percy has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 931 by Percy, posted 03-12-2023 2:28 PM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 933 of 995 (908360)
    03-12-2023 8:28 PM
    Reply to: Message 932 by Theodoric
    03-12-2023 3:08 PM


    Re: Military Industrial Complex
    What mess?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 932 by Theodoric, posted 03-12-2023 3:08 PM Theodoric has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 948 of 995 (911382)
    07-01-2023 9:35 AM


    Ukraine Cant Win
    According to Colonel Douglas Macgregor, a controversial yet well learned conservative,(Ph.D in international relations) is controversial and outspoken on the Russian Ukrainian conflict. He claims that Ukraine cannot win the war no matter what they do despite massive US and NATO support unless NATO gets directly involved.(which would lead to escalation) Wasn't Wagner initially on Russias side as hired mercenaries? If so, I suspect that this whole 180 degree turn by Wagner is in some way staged and is a form of propaganda to convince the world that Ukraine will win and that it is Russia who is nearly finished.
    Some of you have mentioned that the conservative playbook is to spread fear rather than patriotic (and unified) optimism regarding the course of such a war. If so, Macgregor is doing his job for the conservatives, but I might point out that he is no country bumpkin with an opinion. In his opinion (he has written several books) Putin never intended to conquer all of Ukraine but simply consolidate the annexed provinces into Russia...UNTIL his army got bloodied and beaten, at which point Putin used superior Russian artillery and missiles to destroy Ukraine. (Ukraine's population has dropped by at least a third since the war started) Trump liked him and as I peruse his bio, I can see that he has been labeled
    a racist, anti Muslim, and anti immigration type. Quotes such as this one support that:
    Wiki:
    In a 2013 radio appearance, Macgregor spoke of an "entitled" "underclass" of people that were concentrated in "large urban areas", and the threat they posed.
    "And when the food stamps stop, when the free services end, when the heating bills aren’t paid and the heating doesn’t come through in many of these large cities—Chicago, Philadelphia, New York, Washington, Baltimore, St. Louis, Detroit, New Orleans, San Francisco, Los Angeles—this underclass that resides in these places, I think could become very violent."(...) etc etc.
    The Wiki article exposes his public gaffes and racist/nationalist comments. So why do I listen to him?
    What if he is right? What if the war in Ukraine never gets won by Ukraine?
    Maybe dwise1 can help me with this one. He is ex-military and not a far right conservative.

    Replies to this message:
     Message 949 by PaulK, posted 07-01-2023 9:56 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 950 by Percy, posted 07-01-2023 10:53 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 951 by Theodoric, posted 07-01-2023 7:34 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 956 by Percy, posted 07-02-2023 11:22 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 957 of 995 (911394)
    07-02-2023 3:29 PM
    Reply to: Message 956 by Percy
    07-02-2023 11:22 AM


    Re: Ukraine Cant Win
    I asked:
    quote:
    What if the war in Ukraine never gets won by Ukraine?
    Percy writes:
    Yeah, that's kind of a major issue in this thread. Any thoughts of your own?
    I just want to know the truth. I hear more than one narrative and I dont simply trust the presidential press secretary or the news that I hear.
    If Macgregor is an echo chamber for the far right agenda, who or what is to say that the powers that currently be don't have their own agenda and narrative? Why can't the government and current administration have an agenda of their own?
    Is there only one story?
    Is Zelensky the Saint he is made out to be? Is he in fact a "good guy"? One of "us" ?
    And the 64 thousand dollar question: Who IS us? Who does the peanut gallery represent?
    And who do they oppose?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 956 by Percy, posted 07-02-2023 11:22 AM Percy has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 958 by PaulK, posted 07-02-2023 3:40 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 961 by Percy, posted 07-02-2023 6:24 PM Phat has replied
     Message 962 by AZPaul3, posted 07-02-2023 8:16 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 959 of 995 (911396)
    07-02-2023 3:46 PM
    Reply to: Message 953 by Theodoric
    07-02-2023 10:32 AM


    Re: Ukraine Cant Win
    Theodoric writes:
    He posted the wiki page. He does not care and embraces these assholes.
    One critique of many modern colleges is that over 90% of the professors vote for the same political party. If someone has said anything racist in the past, you cancel them and dismiss any academic credibility that they may have.
    Tanypteryx writes:
    Considering that the vast majority of what Phat posts promotes that bullshit, that is exactly what he himself wants to promote!
    As soon as this war started, the majority of the peanut gallery was in lockstep and all agreed
    to staunchly oppose Czar Vladimir The Condemned. I never questioned that since it appeared that Putin was in fact the aggressor. Now I am exposed to another narrative that tells me that Putin never wanted to go hard and eliminate Ukraine but that his generals did. Ive also heard an alternative narrative that states that Zelensky is no Saint and that this war is only being supported by NATO due to the military industrial complex, the assets of Ukraine, and the fact that the Western belief is that everyone on earth has a right to freedom.
    But at what cost?
    And how did Prigozhin turn 180 degrees against Putin? I smell a rat.
    Percy writes:
    Anyone claiming to have even just a fair idea of how the Ukraine war will end is wrong. No one knows how this will end or what will happen before it ends. I hope most people are hoping for a free and independent Ukraine rather than for outcomes, no matter what they are, that will give them a political advantage.
    Explain what sort of political advantage "they" would gain and who "they" are?
    It couldnt be Trump. The system is closing in on locking him up.
    There are, after all, at least two political parties globally as well as nationally. Why must only one be kept in power?
    More to the point, why is there only one answer?
    Percy writes:
    Could you please stop rummaging around in your echo chamber?
    I suppose that you want me to throw away all that I hear that "sounds right" or that strikes an emotional chord. Yet the bleeding hearts claim that the poor Ukrainians are worthy of support.
    I say its because Ukraine is valuable to NATO. We wouldnt be sending much support to a backwash like Yemen!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 953 by Theodoric, posted 07-02-2023 10:32 AM Theodoric has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 963 by Theodoric, posted 07-02-2023 8:49 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 964 of 995 (911406)
    07-03-2023 9:51 AM
    Reply to: Message 963 by Theodoric
    07-02-2023 8:49 PM


    Evidence and Trust
    I bet if Joe Biden or Jerome Powell told you an assertion you wouldn't demand evidence from them.
    Anyway here is a bit of evidence: College professors donate to Democrats over Republicans by ratio of 95-to-1: Study

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 963 by Theodoric, posted 07-02-2023 8:49 PM Theodoric has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 965 by AZPaul3, posted 07-03-2023 10:39 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 966 by Theodoric, posted 07-03-2023 11:10 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 967 by NosyNed, posted 07-03-2023 4:12 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 968 by Admin, posted 07-04-2023 1:51 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 969 of 995 (911481)
    07-09-2023 1:45 PM
    Reply to: Message 968 by Admin
    07-04-2023 1:51 PM


    Re: Evidence and Trust
    Par for the course. Liberal authoritarianism lives on. Im obviously unwelcome here...why the hell do I stay around?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 968 by Admin, posted 07-04-2023 1:51 PM Admin has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 970 by nwr, posted 07-09-2023 3:11 PM Phat has replied
     Message 972 by Admin, posted 07-09-2023 3:27 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 973 by Theodoric, posted 07-09-2023 4:10 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 971 of 995 (911489)
    07-09-2023 3:21 PM
    Reply to: Message 970 by nwr
    07-09-2023 3:11 PM


    Re: Evidence and Trust
    Yeah but now I cant use links at all! Ive never seen anyone else hit with that kind of discipline. Percy mentions my echo chamber, but his whole forum is virtually a left wing echo chamber!
    nwr writes:
    Maybe I disagree with you most of the time, but diversity is good.
    Well, if his discipline is in fact corrective rather than punitive, perhaps I will have to learn to make my points more in my own words....but I expect him to eventually reinstate my links since I have also used links creatively at times.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 970 by nwr, posted 07-09-2023 3:11 PM nwr has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 974 by nwr, posted 07-09-2023 4:36 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 975 of 995 (911503)
    07-10-2023 1:45 PM


    Back To The Ukraine Conflict & War In Europe
    First of all, I thank all of you for bothering to encourage me and explain the motive of the corrective discipline. It may irritate me having to think rather than link, but its probably good for me.
    Meanwhile in Europe...
    Sky News:
    Riots have blazed through Paris, Marseille and Lyon, after police fatally shot 17-year-old Nahel Merzouk.
    The violence comes as France reaches a tipping point after an influx of migrants over recent years.
    “The heart of the problem is this parallel society that has grown up within France, the lost territories and politicians have known about this for 20 years,” The Spectator’s Gavin Mortimer told Sky News Digital Originals.

    Im not sure what this parallel society comment refers to, but it seems to be targeting the immigrants to(in) France. One thing I *do* see is that the rioters...whomever they may be...are fighting against authority (the police) and this bothers me as I fear that this could happen here in America. People need to work with authority figures and authority figures need to respect people. Tearing everything up helps no one. The world needs to learn from these events and people need to educate themselves. The whole group (herd) mentality reaction is caustic to a civilized society/

    Replies to this message:
     Message 976 by PaulK, posted 07-10-2023 2:02 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 977 of 995 (911506)
    07-10-2023 2:10 PM
    Reply to: Message 976 by PaulK
    07-10-2023 2:02 PM


    Re: Back To The Ukraine Conflict & War In Europe
    I was heading in that direction! Yes, I realized that I had not mentioned Ukraine in the post but was too lazy to change the title. Besides, mass riots are wars between people and other people. Rioting is a form of civil conflict. It is far from a peaceful protest.
    Peoples stuff gets destroyed through missile strikes or through the herd mentality of rioters. And why didn't these people protest and riot in the countries that they came from? Why come over to the neighbors house and ruin it?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 976 by PaulK, posted 07-10-2023 2:02 PM PaulK has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 978 by Percy, posted 07-10-2023 2:21 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 981 of 995 (913379)
    10-26-2023 8:41 AM
    Reply to: Message 961 by Percy
    07-02-2023 6:24 PM


    Too Many Wars
    Percy writes:
    Stop looking for stories and start seeking reliable information.
    I've been doing that more lately. The BBC is my usual go to site, but I also listen to Al Jazeera. NBC News with Lester Holt is another one I watch occasionally.
    So here are two stories that I found on the BBC that gave me a better perspective of the troubling expansion of global conflicts.
    Ukraine war: Russia goes back to prisons to feed its war machine
    Adopting the practice of recruiting prisoners as did the now disbanded Wagner Group, (led by Yevgeny Prigozhin - until he and other Wagner group commanders died in a plane crash in August 2023) Russian military is using ex-prisoners to fill the gaps in its defenses (and offenses).
    BBC:
    Storm-Z detachments are reportedly often treated as an expendable force thrown into battle - with little consideration for the lives of their servicemen.
    There are also indications that members of other army units can be sent to Storm-Z detachments as punishment for violations such as insubordination or drunkenness.

    War is a nasty business and Putin is heartless. If he treats his own people as badly as he is doing, imagine how he thinks of treating the United States and Israel someday.
    Russia has resumed nuclear testing, a sure sign of saber rattling.
    On a final note, lest the world thinks that two wars are not enough, South China Sea: Biden says the US will defend the Philippines if China attacks
    I have no critique regarding Biden's assertive foreign policy stance in all three areas of contention, but can our economy handle paying all of this money funding other people's wars?
    Do we have other options or are we going to get sucked into playing global cop as inflation goes up and our aging population counts on Social Security?
    Percy writes:
    Your whole approach to finding out what is true is horribly flawed because instead of seeking facts, information, and analysis you're looking for someone who has the answers. But that's a huge fallacy. No one has the answers.
    That's for sure.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 961 by Percy, posted 07-02-2023 6:24 PM Percy has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 982 by Omnivorous, posted 10-26-2023 12:43 PM Phat has replied
     Message 983 by Percy, posted 10-26-2023 8:15 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 986 of 995 (913624)
    11-23-2023 11:46 PM
    Reply to: Message 983 by Percy
    10-26-2023 8:15 PM


    Re: Too Many Wars
    Percy writes:
    The magnitude of the threat means that these aren't other people's wars. They might not be taking place on our own territory, but they are our wars, too. Concerning countries like Ukraine, the Philippines, Israel, and many more, the forces of authoritarianism take one step closer to our own shores each time one of these countries falls.
    Can the United States remake the world in our own image? Is global Democracy even an ideal? It won't solve all of the problems. I DO agree that there are "forces" of authoritarianism seeking to overthrow the West.
    Looking at BBC reports on Ukraine:
    Ukraine war: Marines gain riverbank foothold but front lines barely move
    Many now say that Ukraine cannot win.
    BBC:
    The (Ukraine) Marines have spoken of gaining a foothold on "several bridgeheads" on the left bank, as they try to push the Russians back in a bid to protect civilians on the opposite side of the river from constant Russian shelling. The few hundred soldiers are outnumbered and surrounded in three directions, yet have managed to dig in for the best part of a month. This isn't the thousands needed to potentially liberate swathes of territory which Kyiv so desperately wants to do.
    The front line has barely moved for a year and Ukraine finds itself in a tricky cycle. It needs Western help to deliver battlefield progress, but it also needs battlefield progress to convince Western helpers.

    As long as Russia keeps feeding its army with new blood, Ukraine will continue to be involved in a war of attrition and one in which they are unlikely to win.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 983 by Percy, posted 10-26-2023 8:15 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 987 of 995 (913634)
    11-24-2023 3:37 PM
    Reply to: Message 982 by Omnivorous
    10-26-2023 12:43 PM


    Re: Too Many Wars
    Omni writes:
    If world peace arrives, we'll probably go broke.
    I think we will go broke anyway. We have spent so much money on wars that did nothing (such as Afghanistan)
    and are now being seen as the instigator of wars we don't even fight in, but only support financially.
    My latest financial apologists all predict a major change in the economy set to hit around March of 2024. Let's hope they are full of hot air!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 982 by Omnivorous, posted 10-26-2023 12:43 PM Omnivorous has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 989 by Omnivorous, posted 02-24-2024 10:04 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 990 of 995 (916204)
    02-26-2024 3:44 PM
    Reply to: Message 989 by Omnivorous
    02-24-2024 10:04 PM


    Re: Too Many Wars
    If Putin beats us, it will be through dethroning the dollar itself. Apart from nuclear and hypersonic missles, he has no weapons with which to defeat us.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 989 by Omnivorous, posted 02-24-2024 10:04 PM Omnivorous has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 991 by Tangle, posted 02-26-2024 4:03 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 992 by Taq, posted 02-26-2024 4:11 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
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