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Author | Topic: The War in Europe | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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Phat writes: There are dissenting contrarians. Opinions. Articles that get me to think. I was stunned at this. Articles? You read articles? Then I checked the link. It's a YouTube video.
One is from a professor. Why Mearsheimer is wrong about Russia and the war in Ukraine. Five arguments from Alexander Stubb. John Mearsheimer has famously argued that the problems in Ukraine are the fault of the West. Leave it to you to find Mearsheimer. This is the guy who said, "Ukraine is going to get wrecked" in the same lecture where he later said, "If you really want to wreck Russia, what you should do is to encourage it to try to conquer Ukraine. Putin is much too smart to try that." It seems odd that you summarize Mearsheimer's views but post the video rebuttal from Stubb. Here's a link to the Mearsheimer lecture that Stubb is commenting on: The causes and consequences of the Ukraine war A lecture by John J. Mearsheimer You're still playing the game of "How do I choose who to listen to?" and your criteria is whoever catches your interest by getting you most excited. You're driven by emotion instead of information. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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Phat writes: As an example, you totally vilified Peter Schiff simply because Irwin was his Father. My response to this lie hasn't changed: You're still a lying little shit. See Message 434. You are the perfect rube. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
You didn't answer my response to your lie, and you didn't respond the previous time you uttered this lie, so this deserves another response. Here's what you did:
How long before you repeat this lie again? What is the matter with you? Do you want that you're a lying little shit to be your legacy here? --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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Thank you for finding the correct information that was there all along.
As far as discussing Schiff, this is the wrong thread. This thread's about the war in Ukraine. In addition, you've proved yourself impervious to evidence, reason and logic, even about your own health, so there's little point in engaging in discussion with you. And if history is any guide, that you've posted nothing about your health recently (unless I missed it) means your diabetes is worsening. The absence of constructive reasoning, for instance again arguing favorably about a gold standard as if everybody and his mother hasn't corrected you dozens of times about it, is consistent with this suspicion. Understand (unlikely, I know), that it isn't that you advocate for a return to the gold standard that's the problem. It's that you're unable to engage with any of the counterarguments that have been presented to you. Your replies tend to take the general form of, "No, you're wrong about the gold standard, watch this video," or just to pull random unsupported and wild claims out of the video. And you're a real sucker for shyster's claims of how accurate and prescient all their predictions have been. It is your responsibility to watch the videos and then distill the arguments down for us here. We're not here to debate with a video. And, "But Schiff says..." is the beginning of the worst type of argument ever. Schiff is not Jesus (and Jesus wasn't real, but that's yet another topic). You're using the fallacy of argument from authority, over and over. You have as much evidence for the value of gold as an investment or as a means of exchange as the "Stop the Steal" people do of widespread voter fraud: none. Didn't mean to get into this. Any replies should be taken to the proper thread. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
This has been in the news a lot lately with both sides accusing the others of lobbing artillery shells near the plant and risking nuclear disaster. In the meantime the plant is still being run by Ukrainian technicians under Russian control. The plant fell to the Russians early in the war.
Apparently fearing that nuclear disaster might affect his country, Turkey's president Erdogan just yesterday expressed support for Ukraine and concern about shelling at the plant (Fearing 'Another Chernobyl,' Turkey Throws Support Behind Ukraine). I'm not sure how great Turkey's exposure is - that country is hundreds of miles to the south. The regions that should be most concerned lie to the east, which looking at a map would be anywhere near the plant, perhaps within a hundred mile radius. But also very concerned should be the Luhantz and Donetsk regions of Ukraine that Russia is attempting to acquire, as well as districts and oblasts of Russia like Rostov, Volgograd, Kalmykia, Yashaltinsky, Stavropol, Krasnodar, and other districts, as well as a significant portion of Siberia. And then there are countries that should have a high degree of concern, like Kazakstan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia and China. Why all these regions and countries aren't putting pressure on Russia to safely secure this nuclear power plant is beyond me. Or if they are then they must be doing so via very quiet backchannels. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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A missile has struck a small town in eastern Poland a few miles from the border with Ukraine, killing 2. Who fired the missile is not known. Some reports say the missile is of Russian manufacture but do not say how they might know that. Some in Poland are calling for invocation of NATO Article 4, which is a consultation article (i.e., not Article 5). Biden has called an emergency meeting of G-7 leaders. Calmer heads seem to be prevailing at the moment.
—Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
By this time there should not be new sanction opportunities against Russia. They should have all been exhausted long ago. Sanctions should mean no one buys anything from you or sells anything to you, all your foreign assets are frozen, your financial system is cut off from the rest of the world, and travel to and from your country is reduced to a trickle. Instead we impose sanctions one little drip at a time, allowing Russia to adjust before the next round of sanctions that never have much impact. We're supporting Ukraine the same way, just little drips of aid that are enough to keep Ukraine alive. If we want the Russia/Ukraine war to drag on forever we're doing just what we should. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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There was a violent US-backed coup in Ukraine in 2014? Who knew!
I'm not going to listen to a 55 minute podcast (or almost any podcast of any length, for that matter). If you want to pass the information it contains on to us that's up to you.
I am NOT taking the position that the Russian invasion is justified, but... You claim to not be saying the Russian invasion is justified, but add a "but". So tell us, what *would* justify it. Let's say, just for the sake of discussion, that we were as active and enthusiastic supporter of Ukraine as we are of Taiwan. Would that justify the Russian invasion? By the way, wouldn't the same logic argue that China is justified in invading Taiwan? What terrible offenses committed by western supporters of Ukraine justify what Russia is doing to Ukraine? It isn't just an unprovoked invasion, it's targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure as well as committing atrocities on a significant scale. What could ever justify any of this? What evidence could anyone present that would make people say, "Oh, okay, I see why Russia is doing this and that they have strong justifications for the theft of Ukrainian agricultural products like grain, the attacks on civilians and civilian infrastructure, the rapes, the murders, the mass graves, and the invasion itself. It all makes sense now." --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
Except for a sentence here and there, I could find nothing in your quotes to agree with.
--Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
All the responses to the program blurb are nonsensical because it was mischaracterized as being the view of the left. It's not. It's just Medea Benjamin's peace-activist side coming out. The views she expresses on Ukraine are not widely shared by the left.
You originally said this in Message 910:
I was trying to put out the perspective of some of those of the leftest persuasion. I was not trying to say that they are right. I do not think they are right. But I do think their position is that the west (NATO) did take actions to provoke the paranoid Russian leadership. Which does not justify the Russian invasion. That NATO provoked Russia is not a mainstream position of the left. The best that can be said is that some on the left see it that way. But it is a much larger segment on the right that really sees it that way, namely the whole MAGA crowd. They're pro-Russia and anti-Ukraine and anti-NATO. Ukraine is perhaps one issue where the extreme left and extreme right can find some common ground. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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Of course you cheesy Neo-liberals imagine a world of equity and equality and kum ba yah by the secular humanist campfire. What you fail to realize is that human nature is not simply a willful inner decision to be nice to everyone. There is in fact a spiritual war. Always has been....which partly explains the elusiveness of Mid East Peace. We strive for equality because it is the right thing to do, rather than ceasing our efforts in the face of obstacles and sitting on the sidelines while discrimination happens, or even worse, joining in. I hope you're not as horrible as you sound, that you're just trying to get attention. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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Phat writes: And TBH I DO often get bored and seek to push a few buttons. I find this despicable. Do you remember an old book called All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten: Uncommon Thoughts on Common Things? One of the things learned is honesty. It is one of the ironies of the religious that many need its help because basic humanity isn't built into them but must somehow be taught them, yet they are the most impervious to such help. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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Phat writes: For adults the message isn't about physicality. He explains very clearly on page 5 that "Don't hit people" is the version of the message a six-year old understands, but then he goes on use the adult example of "environmental pollution and destruction" and how it hurts people. If you're purposefully pushing people's buttons, especially just because you're bored, not provoked, then you're hurting people for no reason. Fulghum said, "Play fair," "Don't hit people," and "Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody." Good rules to go by. He also said, "Clean up your own mess." Better get started. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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Tangle writes: I think I owe Percy something but can't be bothered to find out. I believe it was a bottle of 1796 Lenox Madeira. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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Defend ‘every inch’ of NATO territory? New strategy is a work in progress. in today's Washington Post says a little bit about NATO's ability to fight off Russia:
quote: It says that past concerns about "provoking Moscow with too large a presence have receded." Rendered moot might be more accurate. Lithuania, and I imagine the rest of the Baltic countries, remain concerned:
quote: A portion of the article was devoted to the possibility that Russia attacks NATO first. It wondered how much territory for how long would have to be ceded to Russia, and how well the logistics would work to get fighting forces where they were needed. --Percy
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