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Author Topic:   Is ID falsifiable by any kind of experiment?
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 361 of 507 (908192)
03-09-2023 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by sensei
03-08-2023 5:37 AM


Re: dishonesty is not a good look
sensei writes:
Being accepted does not mean that the model is correct.
Hence the use of the word "tentative". This is how science works. It seems that you reject science in general.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by sensei, posted 03-08-2023 5:37 AM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 364 by sensei, posted 03-09-2023 12:24 PM Taq has replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 480
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 362 of 507 (908193)
03-09-2023 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 360 by Granny Magda
03-09-2023 11:29 AM


Re: dishonesty is not a good look
You prove again that you are noob. Science is not flawless. That is fact. If you refuse to accept that, then you are noob.
We use the tools that we have. We should be aware of its strengths and weaknesses. You are such an extremist fool who fails to understand this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Granny Magda, posted 03-09-2023 11:29 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by Taq, posted 03-09-2023 12:24 PM sensei has not replied
 Message 369 by Granny Magda, posted 03-09-2023 12:32 PM sensei has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 363 of 507 (908194)
03-09-2023 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by sensei
03-09-2023 11:06 AM


Re: dishonesty is not a good look
sensei writes:
Just because you think it's the only way to do science, which is debatable, does not mean that you know how to handle it.
What other way is there to do science???
All of science is making predictions and testing those predictions with observations. That's how science works. Do you reject the scientific method?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by sensei, posted 03-09-2023 11:06 AM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 367 by sensei, posted 03-09-2023 12:25 PM Taq has replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 480
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 364 of 507 (908195)
03-09-2023 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 361 by Taq
03-09-2023 12:18 PM


Re: dishonesty is not a good look
I reject unsubstantiated claims that you make in the name of science. And I reject your misrepresentation of science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Taq, posted 03-09-2023 12:18 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 366 by Taq, posted 03-09-2023 12:25 PM sensei has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 365 of 507 (908196)
03-09-2023 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 362 by sensei
03-09-2023 12:21 PM


Re: dishonesty is not a good look
sensei writes:
You prove again that you are noob. Science is not flawless. That is fact. If you refuse to accept that, then you are noob.
So you reject the findings of science?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by sensei, posted 03-09-2023 12:21 PM sensei has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 366 of 507 (908197)
03-09-2023 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 364 by sensei
03-09-2023 12:24 PM


Re: dishonesty is not a good look
sensei writes:
I reject unsubstantiated claims that you make in the name of science.
Like what???
And I reject your misrepresentation of science.
What misrepresentations???

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by sensei, posted 03-09-2023 12:24 PM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 370 by sensei, posted 03-09-2023 12:33 PM Taq has replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 480
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 367 of 507 (908198)
03-09-2023 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by Taq
03-09-2023 12:23 PM


Re: dishonesty is not a good look
Einstein used thought experiments. Physicists build mathematical models for quantum fields and particle interactions. Are those methods not science?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Taq, posted 03-09-2023 12:23 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 368 by Taq, posted 03-09-2023 12:30 PM sensei has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 368 of 507 (908200)
03-09-2023 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 367 by sensei
03-09-2023 12:25 PM


Re: dishonesty is not a good look
sensei writes:
Einstein used thought experiments.
Those thought experiments were used to make predictions which were later tested by experiments.
Physicists build mathematical models for quantum fields and particle interactions.
And then they test them against observations.
Are those methods not science?
Those are just part of the scientific method. What you are describing is the process of producing predictions. Experiments are then used to test those predictions. However, you have already shown that you could care less about testing theories. You don't think a match between experimental results and predictions means anything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by sensei, posted 03-09-2023 12:25 PM sensei has not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 369 of 507 (908201)
03-09-2023 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 362 by sensei
03-09-2023 12:21 PM


Re: dishonesty is not a good look
You prove again that you are noob.
Can I ask; are you eleven years old? Because that would explain a lot.
sensei writes:
Science is not flawless. That is fact. If you refuse to accept that, then you are noob.
Granny Magda writes:
No-one said the scientific method was perfect...
I have already agreed that science is not flawless you strange person.
We use the tools that we have. We should be aware of its strengths and weaknesses.
This is exactly what everyone has been trying to tell you. We use the tools we have. The tool we have for understanding the cosmos is the scientific method. I suggest that we use that tool.
Do you have a better tool for understanding the world around us? If so, feel free to lay it out. Until then, the scientific method is all we've got and all you've got and that involves comparing predictions against observations wether you like it or not.
Mutate and Survive

On two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage

This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by sensei, posted 03-09-2023 12:21 PM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 372 by sensei, posted 03-09-2023 12:36 PM Granny Magda has replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 480
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 370 of 507 (908202)
03-09-2023 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 366 by Taq
03-09-2023 12:25 PM


Re: dishonesty is not a good look
You made claims that your model is correct because it is best fit. You seem to forget that a model is usually an estimate of some unknown. So even if you followed all the correct steps, which I doubt, it's still only a model.
Science does not work the way you present it here. We use models, and there is nothing wrong with that. But you take it too far, claiming that the models are absolute truth or something. They are not!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Taq, posted 03-09-2023 12:25 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 371 by Taq, posted 03-09-2023 12:36 PM sensei has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 371 of 507 (908204)
03-09-2023 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 370 by sensei
03-09-2023 12:33 PM


Re: dishonesty is not a good look
sensei writes:
You made claims that your model is correct because it is best fit.
In the scientific sense, they are correct. This is always meant to be a tentative conclusion that can be changed by further evidence.
You seem to forget that a model is usually an estimate of the unknown mode. So even if you followed all the correct steps, which I doubt, it's still only a model.
What else is there in science?
Science does not work the way you present it here. We use models, and there is nothing wrong with that. But you take it too far, claiming that the models are absolute truth or something. They are not!
I have never made any claim that any scientific model is absolute truth.
You can't even admit that a match between observations and a model is evidence for the model.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by sensei, posted 03-09-2023 12:33 PM sensei has not replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 480
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 372 of 507 (908205)
03-09-2023 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 369 by Granny Magda
03-09-2023 12:32 PM


Re: dishonesty is not a good look
I have nothing against using models and testing as tool. I have something against people drawing false conclusions from it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by Granny Magda, posted 03-09-2023 12:32 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by Taq, posted 03-09-2023 12:41 PM sensei has replied
 Message 374 by Granny Magda, posted 03-09-2023 12:44 PM sensei has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 373 of 507 (908209)
03-09-2023 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 372 by sensei
03-09-2023 12:36 PM


Re: dishonesty is not a good look
sensei writes:
I have nothing against using models and testing as tool.
Yes, you do. You call it "bad logic". You reject the scientific method.
I have something against people drawing false conclusions from it.
You can't even admit that a match between observations and scientific models is evidence for those models. All you do is call it bad logic without ever showing what that bad logic is. You have this really backwards belief that if we don't know something to be absolutely true then we know nothing. That's ridiculous.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by sensei, posted 03-09-2023 12:36 PM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by sensei, posted 03-09-2023 12:49 PM Taq has replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 374 of 507 (908211)
03-09-2023 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 372 by sensei
03-09-2023 12:36 PM


Re: dishonesty is not a good look
We use the tools that we have. We should be aware of its strengths and weaknesses.
Good. You might like to try testing the predictions of the ToE against observations then.
I have something against people drawing false conclusions from it.
What false conclusions are people drawing from it? That the notion that observations which fit a given theory are evidence in favour of that theory? Is that a "false conclusion"?
No-one is claiming that just because a theory fits a certain piece of evidence it must thereafter be considered absolute 100% unalterable inviolate truth. That would be idiotic hubris.
Mutate and Survive

On two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by sensei, posted 03-09-2023 12:36 PM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 376 by sensei, posted 03-09-2023 12:57 PM Granny Magda has replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 480
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 375 of 507 (908215)
03-09-2023 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 373 by Taq
03-09-2023 12:41 PM


Re: dishonesty is not a good look
Wrong. I reject your conclusions. Not the method of using models and predictions as one of the tools.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 373 by Taq, posted 03-09-2023 12:41 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 379 by Taq, posted 03-09-2023 1:04 PM sensei has replied
 Message 382 by AZPaul3, posted 03-09-2023 3:17 PM sensei has replied

  
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