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Author Topic:   When Fascism Comes To America
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 94 of 303 (907974)
03-04-2023 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by xongsmith
03-03-2023 5:03 PM


Tax The Rich
Tax The Rich is a buzzword. A Catchphrase. Lets examine it.
First of all, lets define "the rich". Shall you frame this issue or shall I?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by xongsmith, posted 03-03-2023 5:03 PM xongsmith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by marc9000, posted 03-04-2023 10:58 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 96 of 303 (907979)
03-04-2023 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by marc9000
03-04-2023 10:58 AM


Tax The RichTax The Working Class(?!!)
marc9000 writes:
There are currently about 22 million millionaires in the U.S. 8.8% of the population. The "tax the rich" mantra seems to go after anyone making $400,000 per year or more, that probably comes close to double, if not more, of the 22 million, of those that are considered "rich".
Without checking your figures, I will assume they are close. Some of my friends own small businesses and, as you say, are responsible for a lot of expenses, insurances, and basic upkeep.
But being a millionaire doesn't necessarily mean that a person has a million dollars laying around, stuffed in their pockets, or in a savings account. Often, most of their money is tied up in property and equipment, that their employees use to produce a product or service. Their house and lifestyle can be just as modest as as a doctor or dentist or lawyer that makes half of what they make.
What I fear is that xongsmiths war cry of taxing the rich is aimed at this middle class rather than at Bezos, Musk, or Buffet. Its silly to fantasize that the Forbes 400 could even make a dent in the national debt. This is why the "tax the rich" ideological rant is misleading.
9000 writes:
All one has to do is drive around any city or industrial area and see shuttered warehouses, buildings, etc. But liberals are every bit as jealous of them as they are of the really filthy rich, like Bezos, or Zuckerberg, or Gates, or Musk.
To stereotype a little bit, EvC itself is full of software engineers and designers, teachers, and retired curmudgeons who are armchair elitists and all of the progressive mindset that has no clue where this country is going. They actually think that having faith in the sanctity and wisdom of the United States government is enough. I have news for them and have said so for the past five years and they sneer and aim their wimpy college degrees at me as if I am an ignorant hillbilly. I have not only gone to school (and some college) but am a self taught progressive thinker who can actually read. I do not think as they do, however. You can call me a hillbilly with a diploma.
But anyway, when they seek to destroy all millionaires, they often cause (small businesses)to raise their prices.
I think I get what you are trying to say. Essentially you are making the argument that while the progressives are the ones that only have roughly 1-3 million in wealth (and obviously a large taxable income)that take the hit on higher taxes.In essence, while the high income conservatives give their money to conservative candidates and churches,the high income liberals give their money to secular causes such as Save the Whales, Snails, Damselflies, Bees and Trees. . Oh and its the ones wealthier than myself ( yet poor by Forbes 400 standards) who thought that hard work paid off who will be targeted to pay the bill. The bottom line is that the ones that will get taxed are both liberal progressive and conservative small business. The conservatives will whine about supporting non religious programs through bigger government. The liberals are actually proud to voluntarily give money away to help LGBT science find ways to have babies. Or to help orphans. The conservatives want more tax breaks to be able to control where they give their money to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by marc9000, posted 03-04-2023 10:58 AM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by xongsmith, posted 03-04-2023 2:53 PM Phat has replied
 Message 104 by marc9000, posted 03-04-2023 10:08 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 101 of 303 (907988)
03-04-2023 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by xongsmith
03-04-2023 2:53 PM


Re: Tax The RichTax The Working Class(?!!)
I have a friend who self identifies as Liberal. He actually wants to pay more taxes if they get used in productive ways. He earns roughly $150,000 a year-$200,000 a year. He abhors Trump with a vengence. He works for Ball Aerospace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by xongsmith, posted 03-04-2023 2:53 PM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by xongsmith, posted 03-04-2023 5:44 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 103 by Theodoric, posted 03-04-2023 6:34 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 106 of 303 (908056)
03-06-2023 11:29 AM


Insert Theodorics Rant Here
(Theodoric started one of his liberal rants directed at Fascists Conservatives which I am redirecting here. )
Theodoric, addressing GDR writes:
Jordan Peterson?
People actually take seriously what he has to say?
He is a misogynistic, drug-addled bag of flatulence. He is the poster child of spouting idiocy outside of his area of expertise. He is a clinical psychologist. Nothing more. He is not an expert in anything else.
Phat writes:
It's funny how you say nearly the same thing about all of the conservatives yet very few liberal/moderates are in your critiques. Sam Harris was the lone exception, assuming he is even liberal
Sloppy as usual. I should have checked Harris's ideological credentials, shouldn't I? After all, we all know that liberal socialists are so smart and fair while the evil capitalists who dare to earn more than their neighbors are villains. Right?
Theo writes:
No one seems to use liberals as experts outside of their field of expertise. That seems to be a right-wing issue. Give me an example of a liberal that spouts shit they are not an expert in.
Sam Harris is like Peterson. Thinks he is an expert on subjects he has no clue about.

Interesting you do not address my criticisms of Peterson, but instead, throw up a straw man argument.
You may not have noticed, but I work for a living and dont have every idle second to devote to you. In addition, I will admit that I tend to run rather than think. I am quite capable of both, however.

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Phat, posted 03-06-2023 12:23 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 110 by Theodoric, posted 03-06-2023 12:45 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 107 of 303 (908058)
03-06-2023 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Phat
03-06-2023 11:29 AM


Re: Insert Theodorics Rant Here
Theo writes:
Give me an example of a liberal that spouts shit they are not an expert in.
Paul Krugman. Joe Biden. I would include the Federal Reserve chairman, but I am unsure if he is liberal or not. I DO know that he is WRONG!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Phat, posted 03-06-2023 11:29 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Theodoric, posted 03-06-2023 12:47 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 108 of 303 (908059)
03-06-2023 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Theodoric
03-04-2023 6:34 PM


Re: Tax The RichTax The Working Class(?!!)
My point is that he agrees with some of my arguments rather than attempting to tear each one to shreds.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Theodoric, posted 03-04-2023 6:34 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Theodoric, posted 03-06-2023 12:49 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 109 of 303 (908061)
03-06-2023 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by marc9000
03-04-2023 10:08 PM


Tax The Working & Save The Planet
marc9000 writes:
Did you watch the rather long link Taq put up in Message 17 Did you at least get through the part from about 3 1/2 to the 5 minute mark? I can't take the time to copy it word for word, but to summarize, he talks about how fascism is about a "psychological law of the mental unity of crowds." When individuals identify with crowds, they lose the ability to think for themselves. Crowd psychology acts as a hypnotizer. Fascism seeks to sway the crowd by telling them what they want to hear. To "emotionally charge the crowd to ideas that get them excited. Climate change activism excites liberals because they believe new laws will harm "the rich". The climate change narrative continues day by day - ABC World News Tonight (that I regularly watch) spends a considerable portion of their half-hour news show each evening sensationalizing about the weather, no matter how normal snow is in winter, heat is in summer, in past history. Climate change alarmism is fascism in its purest form.
Are you suggesting that fascism could spring from the Far Left as well as the Far Right? Ive heard that before. Our old member Faith used to call the "Left" Fascists. What do you think?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by marc9000, posted 03-04-2023 10:08 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Theodoric, posted 03-06-2023 12:50 PM Phat has replied
 Message 129 by marc9000, posted 03-07-2023 9:40 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 115 of 303 (908077)
03-07-2023 3:57 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Theodoric
03-06-2023 12:50 PM


Re: Tax The Working & Save The Planet
ChatGPT:
Fascism is a political ideology that advocates for a totalitarian government led by a single party or leader, often characterized by authoritarianism, nationalism, and a belief in the supremacy of one's own race or nation. Fascist regimes typically seek to exert complete control over society through propaganda, censorship, and the suppression of individual freedoms and civil liberties.
Fascist ideology often involves a focus on militarism and aggression, with the belief that military strength and conquest are essential to national greatness. It also tends to be highly hierarchical, with a rigid social structure that places great importance on loyalty and obedience to the state or the ruling party.
So is the Bot right?If so, the US is far from having a totalitarian government(with or without Trump). Some of us do believe that our nation is superior to others, however. My Shen Yun friends and I are against the CCP and the regime in China.You would be hard pressed to argue otherwise. We here in America enjoy a Pluralistic Society as opposed to a Fascist Autocracy. Granted some of us are more Nationalistic and less Globalistic. We dislike the idea that America owes the world anything. Perhaps Jesus would disagree, to be fair.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Theodoric, posted 03-06-2023 12:50 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Theodoric, posted 03-07-2023 11:04 AM Phat has replied
 Message 117 by Taq, posted 03-07-2023 11:13 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 118 of 303 (908088)
03-07-2023 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Theodoric
03-06-2023 12:47 PM


Re: Insert Theodorics Rant Here
Theodoric writes:
Damn you have hubris.
Pot meet Kettle

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Theodoric, posted 03-06-2023 12:47 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Theodoric, posted 03-07-2023 12:16 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 119 of 303 (908089)
03-07-2023 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by xongsmith
03-06-2023 12:50 PM


Tax The Working Class
KingXong writes:
Nothing increases for those under 400K.
Can we get that in writing?
No, I respect you,xongsmith. I just cant get why you lump all Republicans under Trump and then rant about their collective inhumanity and greed. Do you seriously think that this country would be great if the Democratic Party were the only party in town? Or am I misunderstanding your ideology?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by xongsmith, posted 03-06-2023 12:50 PM xongsmith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Theodoric, posted 03-07-2023 12:13 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 120 of 303 (908091)
03-07-2023 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Taq
03-07-2023 11:13 AM


Re: Tax The Working & Save The Planet
You have a point. Personally, I think that both political parties need an overhaul.
I also believe that Trump is not finished, though I doubted he would win if he even ran until recently.
I can see him mounting a serious challenge to the current status quo but the jury is still out on whether he will or could win.
A lot depends on how far he gets within the Republican Party and whether or not they will challenge him or fall in line behind him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Taq, posted 03-07-2023 11:13 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Taq, posted 03-07-2023 1:55 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 123 of 303 (908095)
03-07-2023 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Theodoric
03-07-2023 11:04 AM


Re: Tax The Working & Save The Planet
Im more interested in whether or not you agree with us that the CCP is not beneficial to/for the rest of the world or not. What say you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Theodoric, posted 03-07-2023 11:04 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Theodoric, posted 03-07-2023 2:15 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 124 of 303 (908097)
03-07-2023 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Theodoric
03-07-2023 12:13 PM


Re: Tax The Working Class
Theodoric writes:
Has anyone advocated for this?
Not specifically. I am addressing xongsmith based on what he said in Message 72

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Theodoric, posted 03-07-2023 12:13 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Theodoric, posted 03-07-2023 2:14 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 128 of 303 (908119)
03-07-2023 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Theodoric
03-07-2023 2:15 PM


Re: Tax The Working & Save The Planet
Theodoric writes:
Why is the CCP relevant to fascism in America?
Because for one thing, China will become the dominant economic power within 10 years. The United States will likely experience a major reset(collapse,recession/depression,major overhaul) within five years.
Add to that the fact that the CCP is 90 million strong and controls China.
Perhaps a better question to ask is this: Is the CCP Fascist?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Theodoric, posted 03-07-2023 2:15 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 136 of 303 (908150)
03-08-2023 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Theodoric
03-08-2023 8:57 AM


Re: Tax The Working & Save The Planet
So says the authoritarian peanut gallery. God forbid anyone disagrees with them
There was once a time in this great country when Republicans and Democrats could shout until they were hoarse in the courthouses, Senate Chambers, and the House and then be unashamed to be seen sitting side by side having a beer after work. Now you have the gall to attack me for talking to him. So what if he is conservative? He and I share some traits that none of you have. And I can just see little Theodoric howling about how we get along because we are both racists! I'll say this much. I am anti-Communist all the way! I'm on Shen Yun's side. The CCP is the Beast from the East.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Theodoric, posted 03-08-2023 8:57 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
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