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Author Topic:   When Fascism Comes To America
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(2)
Message 61 of 303 (907545)
02-25-2023 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by jar
02-25-2023 2:40 PM


Re: What Is Deregulation
I may have missed it in your list:
Deregulating low flow toilets so you can flush classified documents.
Fantastic post, thank you!!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by jar, posted 02-25-2023 2:40 PM jar has replied

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(4)
Message 62 of 303 (907546)
02-25-2023 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Tanypteryx
02-25-2023 2:47 PM


Re: What Is Deregulation
What Phat and the folks in Palestine need to understand is there is not a single example of ANY ruling designed to keep the average worker safe or to prevent the return of long term life effecting pollution.
Never has so much long term damage to the average US citizen been done by one man in so short a period and it will take decades to reverse the damage done. Decades of literally poisoning the youth of our nation solely to improve the profits of corporations and the rich.

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 63 of 303 (907547)
02-25-2023 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by jar
02-25-2023 3:42 PM


Re: What Is Deregulation
That is a long list but I will read it and note the implications. Was that an attack by Trump because he was Trump or was it backed by Conservatives in the interest of smaller government? Doesnt Trump use the euphemism of "draining the swamp"? Ive never really understood what pro Trump folks saw the "swamp" as representing. I *do* understand the concept of smaller government bureaucracy, but certainly not if it hurts people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by jar, posted 02-25-2023 3:42 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by jar, posted 02-25-2023 4:40 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 65 by xongsmith, posted 02-25-2023 6:41 PM Phat has replied
 Message 68 by jar, posted 02-25-2023 7:20 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 71 by Theodoric, posted 02-25-2023 11:29 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(3)
Message 64 of 303 (907549)
02-25-2023 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Phat
02-25-2023 3:53 PM


Re: What Is Deregulation
It was simply rape of the average American and done with their willing cooperation because they, like you, choose to be ignorant.
It was an intentional act by Trump, the GOP and a large percentage of American voters to destroy all of the efforts to preserve the common good (look that phrase up Phat, it's a basic) done over the last seventy five years.
quote:
“Simpletons! Yes, yes! I'm a simpleton! Are you a simpleton? We'll build a town and we'll name it Simple Town, because by then all the smart bastards that caused all this, they'll be dead! Simpletons! Let's go! This ought to show 'em! Anybody here not a simpleton? Get the bastard, if there is!”

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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


(1)
Message 65 of 303 (907561)
02-25-2023 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Phat
02-25-2023 3:53 PM


Re: What Is Deregulation
Phat writes:
I *do* understand the concept of smaller government bureaucracy, but certainly not if it hurts people.
Now you may understand why I have no forgiveness for them. They are sadists, vicious greedy assholes who need to be gunned down before they kill any more of us.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Phat, posted 02-25-2023 3:53 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 66 of 303 (907562)
02-25-2023 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by jar
02-25-2023 2:40 PM


Re: What Is Deregulation
hey jar, i hope you won't mind if i posted this to facebook, crediting you of course. it's an awesome list!! thank you thank you thank you!

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by jar, posted 02-25-2023 2:40 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by jar, posted 02-25-2023 7:15 PM xongsmith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 67 of 303 (907566)
02-25-2023 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by xongsmith
02-25-2023 6:44 PM


Re: What Is Deregulation
Harvard did the heavy lifting, not me.

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 68 of 303 (907567)
02-25-2023 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Phat
02-25-2023 3:53 PM


Re: What Is Deregulation
The fact that a totally meaningless slogan like "Draining the Swamp" or "Smaller Government" has ANY meaning to you is why everyone simply sees you as a deplorable pathetic example of citizenry at the very worst. It is an irrefutable example of willful ignorance, the utter inability to think or comprehend and acceptance of deception.
You are only the fodder for the Carny Barkers and Medicine Men.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Phat, posted 02-25-2023 3:53 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by AZPaul3, posted 02-25-2023 8:07 PM jar has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 69 of 303 (907572)
02-25-2023 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by jar
02-25-2023 7:20 PM


Re: What Is Deregulation
It is an irrefutable example of willful ignorance, the utter inability to think or comprehend and acceptance of deception.
Ahh, yes. Religious thinking; a poison to humanity, a mainstay of the conservative mind.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by jar, posted 02-25-2023 7:20 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by jar, posted 02-25-2023 8:31 PM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 73 by Phat, posted 02-26-2023 5:52 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 70 of 303 (907577)
02-25-2023 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by AZPaul3
02-25-2023 8:07 PM


Re: What Is Deregulation
I think I may have mentioned "SOURCE over content" in the past.
Phat hears what he wants to hear, creates the Jesus he wants, creates the God he wants and then stops.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by AZPaul3, posted 02-25-2023 8:07 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 02-26-2023 5:47 AM jar has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 71 of 303 (907589)
02-25-2023 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Phat
02-25-2023 3:53 PM


Re: What Is Deregulation
I *do* understand the concept of smaller government bureaucracy,
No, you don't. You don't even understand what that means. You like the sounds of the words.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 72 of 303 (907591)
02-26-2023 5:47 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by jar
02-25-2023 8:31 PM


Making Stuff Up And Then Stopping
Phat hears what he wants to hear, creates the Jesus he wants, creates the God he wants, and then stops.
We all tend to hear what we want to hear. You and ringo both accuse me of creating the Jesus whom I want, but I call bullshit. Jesus, if Jesus exists, showed up long before you or I were anything more than a glimmer in our Dad's eye. GOD, God, or god is a bit more complex. One can wander all over the map in the Comparative Religions classroom with that one! And why would I ever stop? If you manage to tie me up in a given argument, I always have ten more somewhere on the forum to pick up with and continue to think about.
Answer me this. How often have you made an argument supporting what you don't want to hear or believe?
Sometimes I think you want me to tell Jesus to get lost only so I have to work harder for my arguments!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by jar, posted 02-25-2023 8:31 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by jar, posted 02-26-2023 7:58 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 73 of 303 (907592)
02-26-2023 5:52 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by AZPaul3
02-25-2023 8:07 PM


Re: What Is Deregulation
AZ writes:
Religious thinking; a poison to humanity, a mainstay of the conservative mind.
So who runs the universe in your mind? Electricity? The Big Electron?
But lest we get too far off-topic I digress.
jar jar binks writes:
...the utter inability to think or comprehend
No Comprende!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by AZPaul3, posted 02-25-2023 8:07 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 74 of 303 (907593)
02-26-2023 6:29 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by xongsmith
02-25-2023 6:41 PM


Overhauling The GOP
Phat writes:
I *do* understand the concept of smaller government bureaucracy, but certainly not if it hurts people.
xong writes:
Now you may understand why I have no forgiveness for them. They are sadists, vicious greedy assholes who need to be gunned down before they kill any more of us.
What do you have against rich people? And how are they killing us? By exercising their right to keep what they have???
Lets do a bit of homework together. I will try and quote enough of this to arrive at a consensus.
What is the definition of “small government” according to the Republican Party?
Among the best answers:
Stack Exchange:
I don't believe you will find an 'official' platform for or definition of 'small government' within the GOP; the phrase is a neoliberal buzzword more than an actual set of policies. Republicans began using the phrase 'small government' regularly back circa the 1980s, adopting it from Libertarians and Free Market economists (both of which were comparatively prominent in the party in that era). The general idea was that government should maximize efficiency and liberty, i.e.:
  • The elimination of government waste and pork
  • The reduction of government intervention in the private sector to some necessary minimum
  • A shift from public services to private enterprises
  • Resistance to international activities — military actions, pacts and treaties, international organizations — in favor of private economic solutions
But even back then, the concept was a political ideal, not overly burdened with specific details or implementations. A nice ideal, or at least an interesting one, but not one that was philosophically or pragmatically developed.
Fairly quickly, however, the 'small government' ideal became entangled with latent segregationist, McCarthyist, and Christian nationalist ideation. Even in Reagan's era, the GOP used the ideal to launch attacks on the welfare and social safety net systems — invoking images of 'welfare mothers' and 'young bucks' (Reagan's term; a slur for black men) living high on purloined tax dollars — and to oppose federal education mandates that prioritized science over religious teachings. The 'small government' rubric lost any connection to the ideals of efficiency or liberty. It became a catchphrase for the preservation of the status quo and the defense of powerful entities against the greater communities they existed within.
Republicans in general now:
  • Denounce the wastefulness of social security while demanding ever-increasing expenditures in law enforcement and military sectors (which supports this threads topic)
  • Reject regulations on private industry, while also rejecting public concerns about pollution and toxic waste
  • Assert the privacy and individual rights of religious groups and political elites while attacking the privacy and individual right of women and minority groups.
In the modern GOP, the concept of 'small government' is inseparable from anti-Democratic, anti-progressive, and anti-liberal agendas. It has lost all but the most specious connections to the original Libertarian ideal and only serves to justify an assortment of extremist positions.
I doubt the GOP is willing to formulate a proper 'small government' platform or definition because:
It is unlikely they could craft a platform that would satisfy all the ways the term is currently used in conservative dialog, at least without appearing completely schizoid
Creating such a platform or definition would commit the GOP to a particular agenda which would
  • open a framework for discussion and negotiation that they fear the Democrats could leverage, and
  • limit the usefulness of the term for invoking and justifying political animus among their constituents
The modern GOP doesn't seem to want 'small government' to be an accessible ideal or practical policy point. They want the phrase to be a trigger for outrage that is as generally applicable as possible. They want the term defined in the gut, not in the head; laying out a platform would only spoil its emotional impact.

Personally, I think that division in American Politics needs to end. Talking about throwing things away, we (the people) need to throw away both major parties and start from scratch. We can start with the GOP to be fair.
Do you have any ideas about what we should replace it with? Or could we simply have one party? Ringo says that Canada has five.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 75 of 303 (907601)
02-26-2023 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
02-26-2023 5:47 AM


Re: Making Stuff Up And Then Stopping
Quite often as you well know.
I do not want the fact that the US and the Christian religion have both been so successful at genocide but that is what the evidence shows regardless of what I want.
I do not want every god and God to be a human creation but that is what the evidence shows regardless of what I want.
I do not want a very large percentage of the US voting public to be willfully ignorant and bigoted and racist but that is what the evidence shows regardless of what I want.
I do not want the Grand Old Party to be a fascist organization but that is what the evidence shows regardless of what I want.
Shall I continue?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 02-26-2023 5:47 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Phat, posted 02-26-2023 9:52 AM jar has replied

  
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