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Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


(1)
Message 1336 of 1864 (907044)
02-18-2023 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1330 by Phat
02-18-2023 1:56 PM


Re: British Humor Writ Large
"Your Gnostic B.S."
My Gnostic Christian knowledge already has you ignoring pertinent question and giving shit answers on the rest.
Some apologist you are, while complaining of the apologetics of others.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1330 by Phat, posted 02-18-2023 1:56 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1359 by Dredge, posted 02-19-2023 9:26 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 1337 of 1864 (907045)
02-18-2023 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1331 by Phat
02-18-2023 2:00 PM


Re: Greatest I AM and AZ Does It enter the room
"it needs medication."
You are becoming quite the anal orifice, Christian.
You do not seem to agree with the spirit of this quote, as you just continue to promote evil.
Martin Niemöller
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
For evil to grow, all people need do is what you do.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1331 by Phat, posted 02-18-2023 2:00 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1358 by Phat, posted 02-19-2023 1:46 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 1338 of 1864 (907046)
02-18-2023 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1335 by Phat
02-18-2023 2:17 PM


Re: British Humor Writ Large
Deflect much.
You have become a garbage apologist.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1335 by Phat, posted 02-18-2023 2:17 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 1339 of 1864 (907050)
02-18-2023 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1323 by Phat
02-18-2023 1:07 PM


Re: Lets Examine Bruce Shelley
No thanks. I will leave history to the historians and the theologians should stick with theology.
The point is you had the date wrong. Was it you or was it him? Why don't you confirm shit before you post your crap?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1323 by Phat, posted 02-18-2023 1:07 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1370 by Phat, posted 02-19-2023 10:15 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 1340 of 1864 (907051)
02-18-2023 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1320 by Phat
02-18-2023 10:36 AM


Re: British Humor Writ Large
skip it not worth it

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1320 by Phat, posted 02-18-2023 10:36 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1341 of 1864 (907058)
02-18-2023 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1334 by Phat
02-18-2023 2:16 PM


Re: Greatest I AM and AZ Does It enter the room
My motto is always to question.
Phat. Man. Please.
You did not write genesis. Your beliefs are not self-evident. You believe because the book told you to. And someone else interpreted that for you.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1334 by Phat, posted 02-18-2023 2:16 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1342 by Phat, posted 02-18-2023 3:44 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1342 of 1864 (907059)
02-18-2023 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1341 by AZPaul3
02-18-2023 3:39 PM


Re: Greatest I AM and AZ Does It enter the room
You believe because the book told you to.
I think I believed because my heart told me to. You rejected religion because your rational mind told you to. My rational mind tells me that the world needs Jesus or there truly will be no hope and we will become extinct and cease to exist.
There is a difference between needing Jesus and needing religion. Some common substitutes include alcohol, peyote, and identity politics.
My critics(including you) will scold me, telling me to embrace logic, reason and reality. I will tell them the same thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1341 by AZPaul3, posted 02-18-2023 3:39 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(4)
Message 1343 of 1864 (907065)
02-18-2023 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1321 by Phat
02-18-2023 10:46 AM


Re: The Meaning Of The Trinity
And if Jesus never existed, the Trinity would fall apart.
Why would it? Why would it make any difference at all whether any of the claims of Christianity (or any other religion, for that matter) are actually true or not? It doesn't!
My first major foray into cyberspace was on CompuServe from about 1986 to about 1992 (at which point their efforts to "improve" the service made it completely unusable). That was where my first online encounters with creationists and attempts at discussion with them occurred. I made several contributions to our section's library (Science & Religion Section of the Religion Forum) which formed the core of my first web site which I created to repost those articles (see my C/E links page)
We had a member, "Suds", who claimed to have been a mathematician who had to retire because of a stroke. He also claimed to have invented Gray Code (a method of encoding binary numbers such that incrementing the value changes one and only one bit at a time -- very important in positional transducers and other hardware applications).
Suds was a Christian, but most of what he posted was even stranger; eg, there are many strong parallels between Mosaic Law and Hammurabic Code which predated Moses by several centuries (thus suggesting that Moses borrowed from Hammurabi) but Suds proclaimed that as proof that Hammurabi had borrowed from Moses (like how President Washington copied all his speeches from President Biden). Very strange stuff.
But Suds did hit the nail on the head with this one: The influence that Christianity has had on Western history and culture did not in any way depend on Christianity being true, but rather on people believing that it was true.
Let that sink in a bit. Does any one of us act on what is actually true? No, we don't, but rather we instead act on what we think and believe to be true. Sometimes the two are the same thing, but more often than not they are not, which is why you have an individual armed with a rifle raiding a pizza parlor in order to rescue the children imprisoned in the pizza parlor's non-existent basement where they are being abused and drained of their blood by pedophilic Satanic Democrats. Completely and utterly untrue (the pedophiles and their enablers (eg, enabler Jim Jordan) are mostly Republicans), but that poor fool believed it to be true so he acted on his false beliefs and we were very lucky that he didn't get anybody killed.
So the effects that a belief has does not in any way depend on it being true, but rather only in how strongly its followers believe it to be true.
That means that the questions of whether Jesus actually existed or about the (super)nature of the Trinity (including whether that's even a real/surreal thing) are completely moot. They do not matter at all. All that does matter is whether people believe it or not.
If Jesus never existed, the church would fall apart.
No, that's not true as already discussed here.
The Church of the Orange Clown MAGAt is still with us because they still believe in The Big Lie of a "stolen election". That "stolen election" never existed, yet that MAGAtry has not yet fallen apart because they still believe the Big Lie. Truth has nothing to do with their continued existence.
Now, in the case of your "the church", as long as its members continue to believe that Jesus existed (and had all the characteristics that they believe in) then it should continue to exist as-is. Only when the members stop believing those things would the consequences you envision come to pass.
Again, what actually is is ignored in favor of of what is believed.
If it stayed together at all, it would simply become a secular humanist do-gooders club.
And you think that would be a bad thing? It would be a very definite improvement over the damage that they do now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1321 by Phat, posted 02-18-2023 10:46 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1420 by candle2, posted 02-26-2023 2:39 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 1344 of 1864 (907067)
02-18-2023 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1328 by Greatest I am
02-18-2023 1:45 PM


Re: British Humor Writ Large
Does that lie of his Christ status make a diference to yopu?
It doesn't matter to me. But perhaps it matters to Phat.

--> -->Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity --> -->

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1328 by Greatest I am, posted 02-18-2023 1:45 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1345 of 1864 (907083)
02-18-2023 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1292 by jar
02-16-2023 5:35 PM


Re: Historical facts not christian propganda
jar writes:
the destruction and eradication of cultures and languages and histories and societies
Cultures, languages and societies have been coming and going since Adam was a boy. Get over it. Think of it as evolution.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 1347 by AZPaul3, posted 02-18-2023 6:50 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1346 of 1864 (907085)
02-18-2023 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1248 by AZPaul3
02-13-2023 9:44 PM


Re: Trin Trinity Trin Trinity Trin Trin Teree ©
I see you've moved the goal posts. First you said "Your cults have produced nothing but blood terror and torture" ... now you're admitting there's some "mitigation" involved.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1248 by AZPaul3, posted 02-13-2023 9:44 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1349 by AZPaul3, posted 02-18-2023 6:53 PM Dredge has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 1347 of 1864 (907087)
02-18-2023 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1345 by Dredge
02-18-2023 6:41 PM


Re: Historical facts not christian propganda
Cultures, languages and societies have been coming and going since Adam was a boy.
Before, actually.
But the point you miss is that these were bloodily destroyed in coordinated, calculated, deliberate butchery by one church through its 1500 years of history. It is ethnic cleansing practiced over centuries by a religion of extreme cruelty and evil.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1345 by Dredge, posted 02-18-2023 6:41 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1348 of 1864 (907088)
02-18-2023 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1236 by Taq
02-13-2023 12:46 PM


Re: Trin Trinity Trin Trinity Trin Trin Teree ©
I've learnt that presenting evidence of miracles to atheists is a waste of time. I have personally experienced two miracles, but I'm not going to bother describing them to you.
You don't want to believe in God. so you dismiss any and all miracles as nonsense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1236 by Taq, posted 02-13-2023 12:46 PM Taq has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 1349 of 1864 (907089)
02-18-2023 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1346 by Dredge
02-18-2023 6:45 PM


Re: Trin Trinity Trin Trinity Trin Trin Teree ©
Only that which you seek to cite as mitigation. I never said it was mitigating.
Gawd, Altar Boy. Pull your head out, please ... before you post, ok?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1346 by Dredge, posted 02-18-2023 6:45 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1350 of 1864 (907090)
02-18-2023 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1237 by Taq
02-13-2023 12:46 PM


Re: Trin Trinity Trin Trinity Trin Trin Teree ©
Taq writes:
Then how do you think babies are made?
Wtf???? You think babies come from inanimate matter?????

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1237 by Taq, posted 02-13-2023 12:46 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1352 by AZPaul3, posted 02-18-2023 6:59 PM Dredge has replied

  
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