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Author | Topic: Picayune Gods & Those Who Market Them | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Good point. I always like to hear other peoples perspectives and how they (you) can see things in a different way than I do. I often see the future in a scary way, The anxiety of not having a job. The fear of poverty and helplessness. When faced with these feelings, I react rather than respond. I lash out at whoever or whatever I perceive to be the cause of my misery.
Of course, were it not for social security I really would end up on the street. And to be honest, why should Jesus favor me any more than He does those street people whom I often despise for stealing? He teaches me decency every day. I'm a slow learner.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Theo writes: Now I never said that! The poor we will always have with us. There is no need to give everything away and join them. The poor must suffer because they or their parents were lazy and immoral. Foreigners should not be here taking what is rightfully mine.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
now just a minute. Let me ask you something. Would you give up everything you had to help raise the tide? To whom would you give it?
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
And ringo. (to me, anyway) (I've got a rant) Liberals insist that the conservative rich are vile and greedy. They advocate the middle class paying the bill, since they intuitively know that the top 5% will never cough up much relief. And yet some of them are themselves well off. Yet they never advocate that *they* should give it all up. Do you think Biden is broke? How about Bill and Hillary? Obama? Please...quit picking on the conservatives for being greedy. [/rant]
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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Tanypteryx writes: I cant obviously speak about all atheists...any more than I could speak about ALL Americans or ALL Chinese. From what I see ideologically from my friends who have publically professed either atheism or support for atheist/humanist values, they advocate freedom from religion. They by and large are against Christian Nationalism. I had to read up on what accusations were being made by liberals and conservatives regarding this idea. He's making up the part about world domination.This from the Texas Observer: The Radical Theology That Could Make Religious Freedom a Thing of the PastEven devout Christians should fear these influential leaders' refusal to separate church and state. It looks like the movement was started by hardline Christians themselves.
Texas Observer: Seems to me that the atheists I know don't want to dominate anything (except the elections! ) but they *do* want to keep the far right radical dominionists out of power as well. Which seems reasonable. Edited by Phat, : spelling The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Nah not stupid. Stubborn!
I can come across as a hardline CCoI at times, but I read more books than they do. You will likely argue that I don't critically read but instead pick pieces parts and place them in my own preferred context. Which I will say I am guilty of at times.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Not at all. I simply dispute what you claim to be evident.
You really cannot convince a believer that God is all in their head. I suppose you can call that fact stupid, but I would call your response infallibly arrogant.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
No, I knew that he was referring to my thinking process and ideological beliefs about humanity in general
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Phat writes: I have had a lot of "spiritual" (perhaps to some of you it is humanist) thinking lately. My plan was initially to go in the other room and quietly pour my heart out to God concerning a couple of people who were(are) on my heart, but what ended up happening is that I decided to watch Amazon Prime (The Marvelous Mrs.Maisal) God spoke quite clearly to me through the very Jewish secular drama and humor. The reason that I started this particular post, however, was to respond to Percy while taking the conversation out of Church History and placing it here.
The impetus for starting this session was to get everyone at the same table (believers and non-believers, Conservatives and Liberals alike) and hash it out without derailing other topics. Percy writes: Ironically, that was one of the lessons that I learned tonight. There are no insignificant people in this world. That in a nutshell is what God wanted me to know.
We shouldn't make this thread about you, but you do have a tendency to direct hate and resentment, along with attribution of some pretty derogatory attributes, toward many people and groups. In large groups people are pretty much the same everywhere, be they Democrats, atheists, homeless people, or migrants, but you seem to have a marked antipathy toward them, especially the unfortunate. Percy writes: Not to also drag this old thread off topic, but you DO realize what would happen if this world had no borders. Poor and hungry people would pour into our communities and we would be forced to help them. Do you honestly think that is what Jesus would want?
WWJD? You have to ask? Render unto Caesar. Borders would mean nothing to Jesus. We are all God's children. Borders are Godless and artificial constructions of men.Percy writes: I am prepared to make an argument that the Left Wing can be quite authoritarian themselves, but I will try and finish this post without reacting.
The far right wing is anti-democratic. Its authoritarian tendencies lean toward fascism.The Two Christianities and Their Problems writes: Comments?
All religions are totalitarian and all religions are authoritarian, although this latter quality is enhanced in theistic religions since of course their founding premise is that there is a super being that literally authored the universe in the first instance and authored the religion in the next, presumably to correct something that went wrong in the initial offering; and of course, the super being (because he is super) can’t possibly be held accountable for anything that goes wrong in his creation. So, when something does go wrong it must be the fault of the humans who are assigned caretakers of at least their part in creation. However in order to hold the humans accountable this super being cannot simply snuff them out and start anew – that would essentially admit that the creation of the humans was itself a mistake on the part of the super being, and a super being cannot make mistakes. So the humans have to be given a good lashing and made to feel guilty; but to remind them of the super being’s power, his majesty, how good he is in having created them and not snuffing them out, the unquestionable author also generates the fundamental principles of his creation’s religion. These fundamental principles structure the totalitarian control over their lives. They tell you what to do, what to think (“good thoughts”), what not to think (“the bad thoughts”), they tell you how to get up in the morning, what time to get up in the morning when to go to bed, how to go to bed (‘always say your prayers before you get into it’), they tell you what to do with your hands, how to wash, how to speak, how and when to light a candle- or not. And of course, what to do with your genitals. They tell you what to do with your children, what to tell your children, what your children are to do with you; and then, there’s all those foods you’re supposed to eat, foods you can’t eat (or feel terribly guilty about eating), and foods you’re to get violently angry when you see others eat it. Commandments cradle to the grave that, is the very essence of the religious life. This is certainly totalitarianism, the very definition of it. All attempts at modernist fascist or communistic totalitarian states (however supposedly secular) take this as their model for imitation...
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Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Some of us fear a one world government without borders. You don't?
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Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Actually I dont think He is wrong.
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Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Phat, initially writes:
You DO realize what would happen if this world had no borders. Poor and hungry people would pour into our communities and we would be forced to help them. Do you honestly think that is what Jesus would want?Tangle writes: Thats a fair question. I believe that Jesus not only exists as what some humanists may say is an altruistic concept and role model but as our moral and spiritual leader. I was shooting from the hip that day into my own echo chamber which is EvC. I *knew* that it would provoke a reaction, yet what many of you did not seem to infer from my suggestion was my fear of authority which is NOT Jesus. In other words, lets look at it from your angle. You believe Jesus to be a myth and are somehow attempting to connect my real feelings with that "fact" as you see it. If ever the world was on fire and millions of people needed help, I would honestly have no problem giving all that I had if necessary. What bugs me about you is that you dont believe in Jesus and yet would be perfectly content to submit to a global authority and/or consensus to mandate cooperation from all of us. This is bugging me. Is it really what you think or is it just another shoot-from-hip thoughtless comment? I'm finding it difficult to understand how you can claim to be Christian and not at least understand his core teachings and what he stands for.Tangle writes: Honestly, I do get irritated because I myself am getting older and fear counting on the government in order to survive. It would indeed be a comfortable delusion to have to count on a global secular humanist coalition in order for me and my old ass to go quietly into that good night without spending my latter years under a bridge begging wealthier people such as yourself for food. Yes, I WOULD be pissed. It's all a comfortable self-centred delusion isn't it? When I engage in these conversations with you and others, I honestly feel Jesus in the middle of them. Getting scolded by a bunch of atheists is in fact noble, because if God can speak from the heart of atheists, God cannot be far from any of us who so desire not only His presence but His authority. Again, the authority I fear is from a secular government mandating that I MUST give all that I have up for the common good. To me, that is terror on earth.
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Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I will take your rebuke with grace. You are right. And as you say, you are not even a Christian. And yet you know the right scriptures. You are a heartfelt individual.
My point is that I would not submit to a mandate from a secular humanist government to give up all that I had into some giant account set up with the intention of helping everyone. I love Jesus and strive to listen to Him daily. You guys don't even know what I do on a daily basis. Many a time I buy someone a meal to help them and because they show the grace to approach me for help rather than stealing the meal and walking out the door. I wont claim any privileged status simply by being a Christian for I know that many of you who don't believe in Jesus would do the same thing and likely often have.
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Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Tanypteryx writes: Is it such a crime to be self centered? Or do you trust Uncle Sam to take care of you and Mrs. Damselfly in your declining years? You would think these self-centered people would also be self-aware wouldn't you? But that never seems to be the case. My guess is that you trust your people. The blues. And you despise the reds as that other aberration seeking to destroy the soul of America.
Percy writes: They worship at the alter of YouTube. If Lord YouTube says it it must be so. What would you say to a guy who "worships at the altar" of The Washington Post? Does he get a complete picture of what is happening and what needs to happen? Just saying.
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