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Author Topic:   Picayune Gods & Those Who Market Them
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(2)
Message 46 of 153 (906064)
02-06-2023 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Phat
02-06-2023 2:41 PM


Re: Dissolve The Bill And Move On
Phat writes:
We wouldnt be better off without them.
All of those systems are socialism.
Socialism that altruistically and blissfully ignorantly "raises all boats" is or will become a globalist socialist agenda.
The US is already socialist, and nearly every conservative likes those socialist systems.
How would your run-of-the-mill blue collar conservative voter think of the eradication of public schools? What if they had to spend 10's of thousands dollars a year to send all of their kids to private schools? Should we not offer schooling equally to all children?
What would your run-of-the-mill senior citizen conservative voter think of getting rid of their socialist pension and socialist health care? What if they had to spend 10's of thousands of dollars a year on private health insurance whose premiums would be multiples of that paid by younger people? How would they afford these premiums without help from their socialist pensions?
It sure would be interesting if people who claimed they were against socialism lost all of their access to those socialist systems.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 02-06-2023 2:41 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 02-06-2023 3:58 PM Taq has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 47 of 153 (906069)
02-06-2023 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Taq
02-06-2023 3:36 PM


Re: Dissolve The Bill And Move On
I told you before i'm in favor of limited socialist programs. Im not in favor of raising the tide on all boats. Its a pipe dream, and the middle class wont accept it.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Taq, posted 02-06-2023 3:36 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Taq, posted 02-06-2023 6:57 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 49 by Theodoric, posted 02-06-2023 8:04 PM Phat has replied
 Message 53 by xongsmith, posted 02-07-2023 9:49 AM Phat has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(2)
Message 48 of 153 (906084)
02-06-2023 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Phat
02-06-2023 3:58 PM


Re: Dissolve The Bill And Move On
Phat writes:
I told you before i'm in favor of limited socialist programs. Im not in favor of raising the tide on all boats.
Those limited socialist programs raise all boats with the same tide.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 02-06-2023 3:58 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by dwise1, posted 02-06-2023 9:17 PM Taq has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 49 of 153 (906085)
02-06-2023 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Phat
02-06-2023 3:58 PM


Re: Dissolve The Bill And Move On
The poor must suffer because they or their parents were lazy and immoral. Foreigners should not be here taking what is rightfully mine.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 02-06-2023 3:58 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 02-07-2023 9:47 AM Theodoric has replied
 Message 58 by Taq, posted 02-07-2023 10:40 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(7)
Message 50 of 153 (906086)
02-06-2023 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Taq
02-06-2023 6:57 PM


Re: Dissolve The Bill And Move On
Those limited socialist programs raise all boats with the same tide.
Or at the very least keep far too many of those boats from sinking.
Our (CSU Fullerton) OLLI's Transitions in Retirement (TIR) presentation on Social Security mainly covered Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability benefits and funding. The presentation described Social Security as a poverty prevention program. That means that you're not supposed to live on it, but rather it is supposed to help keep you from going broke -- I'm one of the exceptions in that my SS check covers almost all my expenses because I'm lucky enough to have had higher earnings which qualifies me to receive near the maximum SS benefit, plus I owe nothing on my condo and car and my medical expenses are nearly non-existent because of my military retirement benefits ... and Medicare.
Most SS recipients are expected to have also paid into retirement plans which their SS benefits only supplements. The problem with that is that too many people have to struggle just to get by so they don't have enough to put away for retirement. Couple that with lost savings and lost home equity due to failures of the banking system (eg, the Great Depression, the 2008 housing market collapse) and you have large segments of the population unable to retire ... and then becoming physically incapable of working, unable to feed themselves or to keep a roof over their heads, etc. Basically Social Security was created to handle just those kinds of problems going into the 1930's after everybody's retirement plans were destroyed when the stock market crashed.
And the plans to privatize Social Security would lead to the same vulnerability to market crashes that SS was created to eliminate.
Similarly, Medicare does not pay for all our medical expenses, but rather for only 80% of it. That is why we need to find ways to pay the other 20%, usually through supplemental plans. And again, it's more for the prevention of poverty.
I don't have the figures yet on my third major medical event (Apr 2022), but the two previous ones cost $65,000 and $81,000 respectively -- I would assume that this third one costed about the same if not more. That amounted to $146,000 dollars and this third one would most likely have bumped that up to $200,000. That's a mortgage! So after having spent 30 years of your life paying off your home, you now need another 30 years to pay off your medical bills? For far too many Americans, a major medical event causes financial ruin. And of course private medical insurance is not only too expensive, but it keeps getting more and more expensive as we grow older and more of a risk at the same time that our ability to earn all that money diminishes or disappears.
Raising all boats with the same tide is a worthy goal. But at the very least we need to keep half the boats from sinking.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Taq, posted 02-06-2023 6:57 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 02-07-2023 9:44 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 51 of 153 (906092)
02-07-2023 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by dwise1
02-06-2023 9:17 PM


Re: Dissolve The Bill And Move On
Good point. I always like to hear other peoples perspectives and how they (you) can see things in a different way than I do. I often see the future in a scary way, The anxiety of not having a job. The fear of poverty and helplessness. When faced with these feelings, I react rather than respond. I lash out at whoever or whatever I perceive to be the cause of my misery.
Of course, were it not for social security I really would end up on the street. And to be honest, why should Jesus favor me any more than He does those street people whom I often despise for stealing?
He teaches me decency every day. I'm a slow learner.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by dwise1, posted 02-06-2023 9:17 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 52 of 153 (906093)
02-07-2023 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Theodoric
02-06-2023 8:04 PM


Re: Dissolve The Bill And Move On
Theo writes:
The poor must suffer because they or their parents were lazy and immoral. Foreigners should not be here taking what is rightfully mine.
Now I never said that! The poor we will always have with us. There is no need to give everything away and join them.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Theodoric, posted 02-06-2023 8:04 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Theodoric, posted 02-07-2023 10:28 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


(1)
Message 53 of 153 (906094)
02-07-2023 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Phat
02-06-2023 3:58 PM


Re: Dissolve The Bill And Move On
Phat pharts:
Im not in favor of raising the tide on all boats.
what a shitass you are, you only want your boat to float higher.
you are a selfish SHITASS.
phucque you.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 02-06-2023 3:58 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 02-07-2023 9:51 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 54 of 153 (906095)
02-07-2023 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by xongsmith
02-07-2023 9:49 AM


Re: Dissolve The Bill And Move On
now just a minute. Let me ask you something. Would you give up everything you had to help raise the tide? To whom would you give it?

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by xongsmith, posted 02-07-2023 9:49 AM xongsmith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Theodoric, posted 02-07-2023 10:29 AM Phat has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 55 of 153 (906102)
02-07-2023 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Phat
02-07-2023 9:47 AM


Re: Dissolve The Bill And Move On
No. You never said it in those words, but that is what you mean. You are either lying to us or lying to yourself.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 02-07-2023 9:47 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 56 of 153 (906103)
02-07-2023 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Phat
02-07-2023 9:51 AM


Re: Dissolve The Bill And Move On
Nice strawman there. Are you ever honest? Even to yourself? No one has said that people need to give up everything to help the poor. Well, no one except Jesus.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 02-07-2023 9:51 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 02-07-2023 10:35 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 57 of 153 (906106)
02-07-2023 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Theodoric
02-07-2023 10:29 AM


Re: Dissolve The Bill And Move On
And ringo. (to me, anyway) (I've got a rant) Liberals insist that the conservative rich are vile and greedy. They advocate the middle class paying the bill, since they intuitively know that the top 5% will never cough up much relief. And yet some of them are themselves well off. Yet they never advocate that *they* should give it all up. Do you think Biden is broke? How about Bill and Hillary? Obama? Please...quit picking on the conservatives for being greedy. [/rant]

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Theodoric, posted 02-07-2023 10:29 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Taq, posted 02-07-2023 10:42 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 60 by Theodoric, posted 02-07-2023 10:58 AM Phat has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(3)
Message 58 of 153 (906107)
02-07-2023 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Theodoric
02-06-2023 8:04 PM


Re: Dissolve The Bill And Move On
Theodoric writes:
Foreigners should not be here taking what is rightfully mine.
Can't help but think of these types of memes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Theodoric, posted 02-06-2023 8:04 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(4)
Message 59 of 153 (906109)
02-07-2023 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Phat
02-07-2023 10:35 AM


Re: Dissolve The Bill And Move On
Phat writes:
Liberals insist that the conservative rich are vile and greedy.
I'm a liberal and I don't think that. They are no different than anyone else. They take advantage of the system they were given. What we need to do is change the system, not the people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 02-07-2023 10:35 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by xongsmith, posted 02-07-2023 12:09 PM Taq has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 60 of 153 (906114)
02-07-2023 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Phat
02-07-2023 10:35 AM


Re: Dissolve The Bill And Move On
You are king of the Strawman fallacy.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 02-07-2023 10:35 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 02-07-2023 4:08 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
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