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Author Topic:   Science requires faith, chat gtp agrees.
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 31 of 79 (905822)
02-04-2023 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Phat
02-03-2023 7:05 PM


Re: Bigger Fuse
Phat writes:
I'm not as weak as the lot of you were.
Don't confuse hard-headedness with strength.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 02-03-2023 7:05 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 32 of 79 (905824)
02-04-2023 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by riVeRraT
02-03-2023 11:06 PM


Re: typical
riVeRraT writes:
Please provide a clear and concise example of me lying, or you are wrong.
Some years ago you had an interaction with a member named rrhain. He suggested an experiment: put an inch or so of water in a bathtub, then put a brick in it (dry land). Then scoop up some of the water and pour it over the brick. That was an analogy of the Flood, illustrating how it is impossible to cover all of the existing land with the existing water. You professed, post after post, to not understand the obvious. You were either a huge idiot or you were lying about how huge an idiot you were.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 11:06 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by riVeRraT, posted 02-04-2023 1:43 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 33 of 79 (905825)
02-04-2023 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by riVeRraT
02-03-2023 11:08 PM


riVeRraT writes:
It considers CNN and valuable resource and Fox to be biased. You would be proud.
I have never seen either one. Don't make assumptions about me.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 11:08 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Phat, posted 02-04-2023 11:20 AM ringo has replied
 Message 48 by riVeRraT, posted 02-04-2023 1:49 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 34 of 79 (905827)
02-04-2023 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Tangle
02-04-2023 2:48 AM


Re: Bigger Fuse
I just elaborated a bit in my response to Percy Message 2001
but I couldn't find your exact post asking me that specific question so I'll just answer it here.
My "religious" friends would likely warn me about abandoning the truth that I know and setting it aside as you suggest one *must* do if they honestly want to utilize critical thinking.
Tangle writes:
You can't hope to even begin a critical thinking course unless you're prepared to accept that you might be wrong about previously held beliefs and preconceived ideas.
Well, yet again im a rebel. I am taking the course and I will keep in mind that I could be wrong about certain thinking patterns and ideas...but I'm not a 12 year old Catholic who never met Jesus and decided to throw his beliefs in the gutter as his scientific and rational mind took flight. You have some preconceived ideas that you might need to let go of too. One of them is that the Bible is a poor source of wisdom. You people have nothing better.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Tangle, posted 02-04-2023 2:48 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by AZPaul3, posted 02-04-2023 11:18 AM Phat has replied
 Message 42 by Tangle, posted 02-04-2023 11:35 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 35 of 79 (905829)
02-04-2023 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Theodoric
02-03-2023 9:38 PM


Re: Bigger Fuse
How can I dispute what I haven't studied?

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Theodoric, posted 02-03-2023 9:38 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Theodoric, posted 02-04-2023 12:28 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 36 of 79 (905830)
02-04-2023 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
02-04-2023 11:09 AM


Re: Bigger Fuse
One of them is that the Bible is a poor source of wisdom. You people have nothing better.
Oh, Phat-man. Tom Sawyer is a better source of human wisdom then your bible. And I can cite about 2 dozen gazillion more works.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 02-04-2023 11:09 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 02-04-2023 11:21 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 37 of 79 (905831)
02-04-2023 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by ringo
02-04-2023 11:02 AM


To assume makes an ass out of you and me!
ringo, addressing riVeRrat writes:
Don't make assumptions about me.
Feisty, arent we? Better use some of your bullets...because I'll make assumptions about you all week long and twice on Sunday. Granted I will keep revising my assumptions as you give me more written ammunition to work with. And FYI...you make assumptions about me based on what I write ALL the time.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by ringo, posted 02-04-2023 11:02 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by ringo, posted 02-04-2023 11:55 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 38 of 79 (905832)
02-04-2023 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by AZPaul3
02-04-2023 11:18 AM


Re: Bigger Fuse
Oh, AZ! You and Becky Thatcher would have made a cute couple!

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by AZPaul3, posted 02-04-2023 11:18 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by AZPaul3, posted 02-04-2023 11:28 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 39 of 79 (905833)
02-04-2023 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by ringo
02-04-2023 10:50 AM


Evidence Schmevidence
ringo writes:
When you come to an intersection, you don't take it on faith that there will be no other cars. You skeptically look both ways.
Im skeptical about stuff that I dont know or cannot see.
You don't have to pretend to accept science any more. You might as well be a full-blown YEC.
I accept the science as to how old the planet likely is. Im skeptical about anything to do with YEC, but there is a slim possibility that we *all* are wrong.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by ringo, posted 02-04-2023 10:50 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by ringo, posted 02-04-2023 11:59 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 40 of 79 (905834)
02-04-2023 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Phat
02-04-2023 11:21 AM


Re: Bigger Fuse
Yes, I thought so. At the time I read it Becky and I became quite familiar.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 02-04-2023 11:21 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 41 of 79 (905835)
02-04-2023 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by riVeRraT
02-03-2023 11:05 PM


Go You
In this day and age, I'd rather trust God than I would humanity. I try and love them all, however. Im just not gonna buy into an eventual global government...if such a Beast would ever rise up.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 11:05 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 42 of 79 (905836)
02-04-2023 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
02-04-2023 11:09 AM


Re: Bigger Fuse
Phat writes:
Well, yet again im a rebel. I am taking the course and I will keep in mind that I could be wrong about certain thinking patterns and ideas...but I'm not a 12 year old Catholic who never met Jesus and decided to throw his beliefs in the gutter as his scientific and rational mind took flight.
You and your friends think it rebellious to want to be able to think clearly? Don't you think that's that's a bit screwed up?
And I'm not talking about your religious beliefs. That's the third time I've said that. Keep you damn beliefs, they're irrelevant.
Critical thinking is not about religion, it's about thinking rationally. You can't think in a straight line. You think you can and every so often you like to tell people that you're at least as smart as everyone here, but you're evidentially not. But regardless of how clever you are, you can learn some fairly simply thinking skills that you'll find useful in your general life and make you look less like a loon to others.
You have some preconceived ideas that you might need to let go of too. One of them is that the Bible is a poor source of wisdom.
You see, you didn't think about that did you? You just shot from the hip, a defensive reflex. I think that the bible is a good source of wisdom - if somewhat unoriginal - but it's not a good source of fact.
You people have nothing better.
Strange then that we people seem to manage just fine isn't it?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 02-04-2023 11:09 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 43 of 79 (905844)
02-04-2023 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Phat
02-04-2023 11:20 AM


Re: To assume makes an ass out of you and me!
Phat writes:
Better use some of your bullets...because I'll make assumptions about you all week long and twice on Sunday.
And you'll be wrong.
Phat, Phat, and riVeRraT, Fifty bullets in their hats.
Phat writes:
And FYI...you make assumptions about me based on what I write ALL the time.
"Based on what you write" are conclusions, not assumptions. riVeRraT's assumptions that I was referring to, were about what (American) news networks I watch. I have not written about that. He was pulling his assumptions out of his ass.
Try thinking for once. You won't fry either side of your brain.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Phat, posted 02-04-2023 11:20 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 44 of 79 (905845)
02-04-2023 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Phat
02-04-2023 11:27 AM


Re: Evidence Schmevidence
Phat writes:
Im skeptical about stuff that I dont know or cannot see.
You can't see God, so you ought to be skeptical.
Phat writes:
I accept the science as to how old the planet likely is.
As I said, you might as well not be. You're not really accepting science. You're just cherry-picking the parts you want to accept. That isn't how science works.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 02-04-2023 11:27 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by AZPaul3, posted 02-04-2023 12:37 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 45 of 79 (905852)
02-04-2023 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Phat
02-04-2023 11:15 AM


Re: Bigger Fuse
Yet you do. Repeatedly.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 02-04-2023 11:15 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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