What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Naw, I just am having trouble thinking of words that will express the extreme level of my contempt for Phat and everything he represents.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Let's start with the hungry children in the U.S. How much federal income tax do you pay? I would bet that not more than a nickel of the tax you pay per year is spent helping feed hungry people, you whiny, self-centered !@#$%^&*!
I've posted this before, so here's a summary plus the video:
1% All other, including energy, agriculture, and commerce
That's only 46%. Remaining 54% goes to the military, most of which goes to defense contractors.
Further note: mandatory spending includes Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Affordable Care Act. Social Security old-age benefits and Medicare are funded by payroll taxes, not income tax. Their only contribution to the debt is that they are required to invest their trust funds wisely, namely by buying government bonds, which makes the government indebted to those trust funds.
Food stamps account for a portion of six percent (6%) of that (Income Security in the list above, which also includes unemployment). 6% of $1.2T is $72 billion (109). I repeat: SNAP only accounts for a portion of that 6%. According to the article on the Food Stamp program, Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP):
quote:SNAP benefits supplied roughly 40 million Americans in 2018, at an expenditure of $57.1 billion. Approximately 9.2% of American households obtained SNAP benefits at some point during 2017, with approximately 16.7% of all children living in households with SNAP benefits. Beneficiaries and costs increased sharply with the Great Recession, peaked in 2013 and have declined through 2017 as the economy recovered. It is the largest nutrition program of the 15 administered by FNS and is a key component of the social safety net for low-income Americans.
So using those figures we arrive at: $57.1×109 ÷ $40×106 people = $1427.50 / person. Of course, that would include overhead, so we're talking about less than $118.96 going to each recipient per month (or $27.45 per week, which is only about one day's per diem on my military travel claims a few decades ago). Interestingly, my food costs worked out to $512.87 last month, which works out to $118.35 per week. And I'm not extravagant plus I have an old man's reduced appetite (usually two small meals a day).
So $57.1 billion is too much to keep people from starving and should instead be sacrificed to give the super-rich even more tax breaks? When that Trump Tax Scam was being discussed, I performed a back-of-the-envelope calculation. Just working from memory right now, I heard a figure of it amounting to $33,000 per person in the upper 1% (which in reality starts at an annual income of a measly half-million), so I applied that to the size of 1% of the US population (about 3 million) to arrive at how many billions of dollars that would entail (about $110 billion). Then I distributed that amount to the entire US population (333 million) in which case each person would receive about $330. The difference would be that if everybody received an extra $330, they would spend it and that money would go straight back into the economy (ie, a $110 billion stream-line injection straight into the economy's vein), whereas a billionaire or mere multi-millionaire would just stick a measly $33,000 check in a drawer or else gamble with it on the stock market, thus keeping the vast majority of that $110 billion from ever making its way back into the economy. Therefore, we should put our money where it will do the most good.
We should also consider who is eligible for SNAP. Military pay is still low, especially for junior enlisted, so many junior enlisted families depend on SNAP just to eat. In addition, Walmart, that gleaming monument to capitalism, depends strongly on welfare programs, including SNAP, for its employees to survive on their meager pay due to low hours (which also enables Walmart to avoid providing medical benefits, though I've been hearing that in the post-COVID jobs market they've been having to clean up their act). A standard part of new-hire orientation at Walmart would be how to apply for welfare including Food Stamps.
So, why not just let them go hungry or even starve? Consider that two of the most impactful revolutions in Western history, the French Revolution of 1789 and the Russian Revolution of 1917, were largely triggered by and greatly fueled by the rebellion of starving peasants.
I have also recently heard that the banks -- and hence the overall economy -- benefited greatly by our keeping people solvent during the pandemic. That is because enabling people to continue paying on their loans instead of having to default kept the economy working. I don't understand why this would be such a difficult idea to understand: a functioning economy is much better than economic collapse.
Edited by dwise1, : edited discussion of Walmart practices in the past
quote:Prosperity theology (sometimes referred to as the prosperity gospel, the health and wealth gospel, the gospel of success, or seed faith) is a religious belief among some Protestant Christians that financial blessing and physical well-being are always the will of God for them, and that faith, positive speech, and donations to religious causes will increase one's material wealth. Material and especially financial success is seen as a sign of divine favor.
Prosperity theology has been criticized by leaders from various Christian denominations, including within some Pentecostal and charismatic movements, who maintain that it is irresponsible, promotes idolatry, and is contrary to the Bible. Secular as well as some Christian observers have also criticized prosperity theology as exploitative of the poor. The practices of some preachers have attracted scandal and some have been charged with financial fraud.
. . .
It was during the Healing Revivals of the 1950s that prosperity theology first came to prominence in the United States, although commentators have linked the origins of its theology to the New Thought movement which began in the 19th century. The prosperity teaching later figured prominently in the Word of Faith movement and 1980s televangelism. In the 1990s and 2000s, it was adopted by influential leaders in the Pentecostal movement and charismatic movement in the United States and has spread throughout the world. Prominent leaders in the development of prosperity theology include Todd White, Benny Hinn, E. W. Kenyon, Oral Roberts, A. A. Allen, Robert Tilton, T. L. Osborn, Joel Osteen, Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Copeland, Reverend Ike, Kenneth Hagin, and Joseph Prince.
Creflo Dollar?Really? The Wikipedia page on him gives no hint of that not being his actual name.
I prefer Johnny Dollar, "the man with the action-packed expense account". Yours Truly, Johnny Dollar originally aired 1949--1962 and plays on Sirius XM's Radio Classics channel.
Well, dwise1, you have made a good case. I stand corrected. I have a few questions, though.
How much are we sending to the Ukraine? Why cant we send money to Mexico and open up that border? Let them get rid of the cartels and corruption and join us to help pay our social security?
Why are we letting desperate people in from as far away as Venezuela instead of helping Mexico? Why are we spending so much more than we have to spend?
Conservatives understand finance better than liberals do. Conservatives have a math brain and no heart.
Liberals have a BIG heart but no skills at real world decisions. Weaponizing the dollar will come back and bite us in the ass. I still believe that Russia and China will eventually topple the dollar. Then you will see hell on earth here in the US.
I just watched Jerome Powell's Gish gallop in trying to explain what the Fed is doing. Mark my words, it all will fail.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
quote:Prominent leaders in the development of prosperity theology include Todd White, Benny Hinn, E. W. Kenyon, Oral Roberts, A. A. Allen, Robert Tilton, T. L. Osborn, Joel Osteen, Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Copeland, Reverend Ike, Kenneth Hagin, and Joseph Prince.
Most Christians I know reject prosperity theology as a hustle and a scam. Nearly every name on that list is a known scam artist in our circle. Those guys are the Duane Gish's of our group.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Is it physically painful for you to answer a question directly?
The reason I dont address that question directly is because it would support your argument that we (Christians only, mind you) are called to give all that we have. Its like adopting a dysfunctional kid into the family whose mouth needs to be fed yet whose brain does not wrap itself around the idea that he too has to pay his way in that house. At least with Mexico, if we helped them, they all would work and pay taxes. (They do anyway, even if not citizens) What return do we get on these stupid ideas involving reparations? What return do we get by helping the Ukraine...apart from helping Europe?
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
I have at times taken a few kids into my house that needed to be fed and did not expect them to pay. I adopted both my sons. One is 40 the other is 13. Neither has ever paid me for their food or housing. We have taken in other youth that were in a bad place. A friend and his kids lived with us for a while when he lost his lease. No one has to pay. I am glad to share what I have. It gives me self-worth and a good feeling about myself and them. Yes, I also did this years ago when I had little more to share than a roof, a bed and some food. I had more than they did. This is how my parents lived also. They did not have much, but people were welcome at the dinner table and a bed was found if they needed a roof over their head. My parents were nominally Christian, but did not go to church or belong to a church. You are a vile, narcissistic, self-entitled bigot and hater.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
Conservatives understand finance better than liberals do. Conservatives have a math brain and no heart.
That is the stupidest thing you have ever said. You cannot support that with any behavior of conservatives since Braindead Reagan was elected. The whole fucking republican platform has been to burn down the government and turn it into a money stealing scam for the billionaires.
Phat writes:
Weaponizing the dollar will come back and bite us in the ass.
What the fuck are you talking about?
Phat writes:
I still believe that Russia and China will eventually topple the dollar. Then you will see hell on earth here in the US.
What we all know is that you have never been correct so far about global or national economics or finance.
Phat writes:
I just watched Jerome Powell's Gish gallop in trying to explain what the Fed is doing. Mark my words, it all will fail.
Well, we all know you are praying for failure, because you think you can grab a bigger piece of the prize in the anarchy and chaos.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
So $57.1 billion is too much to keep people from starving and should instead be sacrificed to give the super-rich even more tax breaks? When that Trump Tax Scam was being discussed, I performed a back-of-the-envelope calculation. Just working from memory right now, I heard a figure of it amounting to $33,000 per person in the upper 1%
I seem to remember Trump saying he would not benefit from the Trump Tax Scam and now we can see that was the truth, because he was not paying any income tax at all most years.
Meanwhile Republicans are on a rampage to gut the ability of the IRS to collect taxes already owed by the wealthy or to conduct audits. Note that for the 1st time in recent presidencies Trump was never audited while in office. Don't look at us, don't look at us is the Republican Mission Statement!
And in The Spirit Of Sacrificial Giving, I'm butting out of this thread.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Its like adopting a dysfunctional kid into the family whose mouth needs to be fed yet whose brain does not wrap itself around the idea that he too has to pay his way in that house.
How much are we sending to the Ukraine? Why cant we send money to Mexico and open up that border? Let them get rid of the cartels and corruption and join us to help pay our social security?
What the hell are you talking about? What is any of that supposed to mean?
We are working with NATO to help a sovereign nation defend itself against an armed genocidal invasion -- "genocidal" because Putin's stated goals are to eliminate a separate Ukrainian people with its own country, language, culture, and identity, including the wholesale kidnapping of Ukrainian children and transporting them to Russia, erasing their personal history (and any hope of their families ever finding them again), having them adopted by Russian families to raise them as Russians.
What the hell is that supposed to have to do with Food Stamps?
We are working with Mexico in many ways as should be the case with a neighboring country. What's your beef with that?
And why are you talking about opening up the border? We do need to have a secure border, but the previous administration (Trump) scrapped the system that we had had in place (eg, having seekers of asylum applying and being processed in their country of origin rather than have them suddenly show up at the border to start the process) and we're stuck with having to try to clean up that mess at the same time that we have to deal with the situation created by Trump and his minions (eg, Gollum look-alike Stephen Miller).
We are working with Mexico in dealing with the cartels and have been for years; DEA operations and the US Navy and Coast Guard on LEO (Law Enforcement Operations to intercept smuggling) come immediately to mind. But "join us to help pay our social security"??? What the fuck are you talking about???
Why are we letting desperate people in from as far away as Venezuela instead of helping Mexico? ...
We do have asylum laws. And we used to have ways to process asylum seekers in their own country, but Trump scrapped those processes. And we used to provide aid to countries to reduce the need for their people to seek asylum, but that was also scrapped by Trump's administration. And we're still having to deal with ICE and Homeland Security operatives left over from Trump and still trying to run things Trump's way.
The system is clearly broken and we very much need to enact immigration reforms. The primary problem with getting that done is obstruction from the Republicans in Congress who do not want to solve the problem. They want the problems to continue so that they can do their performance politics of complaining loudly about the problem and blaming it on the Democrats, but then when they come into power they do nothing about it, saving the problem to blame on the next Democratic administration.
... Why are we spending so much more than we have to spend?
A functional government needs funding in order to function.
The situation on the border is also raises humanitarian issues, something that is completely alien to "true Christians". While Republicans are proud of transporting these people north and dump them to freeze and starve on the streets, humanitarian concerns dictate otherwise.
Time for dance classes. I'll get to the rest of your reply later.
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