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Author Topic:   Choosing a faith
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(4)
Message 1936 of 3694 (905636)
02-01-2023 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1920 by Phat
01-31-2023 9:45 AM


Reflecting
Phat writes:
If a given group of people claim that their belief in and of itself should be taken seriously, it would be a good idea to find out precisely what makes these people tick and why (in ancient times and in some radical sects) they willingly give up their lives to make a point.
I'd like to go back to this statement, now that I've rambled on and on about looking into what makes believers tick for a few posts.
What do you think about reversing the statement?
If a given group of people claim that their atheism in and of itself should be taken seriously, it would be a good idea to find out precisely what makes these people tick and why studies show that secular societies do better than belief-based societies.
Perhaps, instead of being so focused on getting atheists to be interested in religious ideas... you should take a look at what makes atheists tick and why their ideas seem to result in better societies?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1920 by Phat, posted 01-31-2023 9:45 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1937 by Phat, posted 02-01-2023 3:53 PM Stile has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18338
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1937 of 3694 (905647)
02-01-2023 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1936 by Stile
02-01-2023 12:20 PM


Re: Reflecting
Reluctantly I'll agree. It causes anxiety, though.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1936 by Stile, posted 02-01-2023 12:20 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1953 by Stile, posted 02-02-2023 8:19 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18338
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1938 of 3694 (905648)
02-01-2023 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1935 by Stile
02-01-2023 11:56 AM


Re: Tick tock
If nothing else, you may have finally explained what jar always meant when he implored me to "throw God away."
And truthfully, if He *DID* exist, i'm sure it wouldnt affect Him at all.
Perhaps my only concern would be how such an action would affect *ME*!

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1935 by Stile, posted 02-01-2023 11:56 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1954 by Stile, posted 02-02-2023 8:22 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 1939 of 3694 (905652)
02-01-2023 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1932 by Phat
02-01-2023 10:02 AM


Phat trolling again
Who the fuck is talking about reparations? If you don't follow or understand the context of a conversation and topic how about you don't put in your two cents and drag it off topic. If you want to address what I actually commented maybe I will reply, but probably not. Sick of trolls here.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1932 by Phat, posted 02-01-2023 10:02 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1940 by nwr, posted 02-01-2023 6:03 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


(2)
Message 1940 of 3694 (905655)
02-01-2023 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1939 by Theodoric
02-01-2023 5:50 PM


Re: Phat trolling again
Who the fuck is talking about reparations?
Panic stricken white supremacists -- that's who.
Why they are panic stricken, and why they are so worried about reparations, I do not know. Perhaps it is a guilty conscience.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1939 by Theodoric, posted 02-01-2023 5:50 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 1941 of 3694 (905658)
02-01-2023 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1901 by Stile
01-30-2023 9:41 AM


Re: The Unstoppable Movement of Knowledge
GDR writes:
Let's say a wealthy philanthropist finances a new wing of a hospital and then names it after himself. What was his motivation. Was it care for others, or was it to build a monument to himself? Sure you could say it was both but would he have done it it anonymously? We simply don't know.
Stile writes:
Why don't we just ask him?
Hmmm... and if it is about enhancing his own image do you think he'll tell you that? Colour me sceptical.
Stile writes:
Why not?

Are you afraid he might lie to you?
Then you have an issue with people lying - not an issue with identifying motivation.
And that's why studies on such issues are done over and over again, with various people, in double-blind scenarios... a known method for successfully battling "lying."

Just ask them.
How do we ever know what is in someone's heart? I often question my own motivation. As a Christian i would say that only God knows.
Stile writes:
Don't need to. We can, today, see various animals with various sized brains... each with different levels of empathy development. And we can go back and see how our own brain structure developed through similar stages as it evolved.
Can you provide us with a copy of that study?
Stile writes:
This conclusion comes from looking for divinely initiated anything and never ever finding it. Not even the possibility of subliminal influences. After looking everywhere for it.
Ya, absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1901 by Stile, posted 01-30-2023 9:41 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1955 by Stile, posted 02-02-2023 8:31 AM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 1942 of 3694 (905659)
02-01-2023 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1902 by Stile
01-30-2023 10:00 AM


Re: What's Important enough?
Stile writes:
Your ideas lead you to "look for any truth that aligns with the resurrection being an historical fact."
Not really. I actually start with the belief in a theistic deity because that makes a great deal more sense to me that does a wholly materialistic world.
Stile writes:
-because you ignore the great amounts of evidence showing it is most likely erroneous.
The only evidence I have ever heard is that they know it couldn't happen because it can't happen, and that they see people dying all the time and they aren't resurrected. What other evidence have you got?
Stile writes:
The evidence is that humans are not capable of being resurrected in that way.

Be able to duplicate "a resurrection" - and you have shown that it's possible.
Without duplicating it - and with all our testing and verification that it's not how human bodies work - this is "evidence that it couldn't possibly happen."
With a materialistic view then of course it is impossible. If however, there is a deity that is responsible for our existence then resurrection is plausible.
Stile writes:
Your posts do not match this claim.
You seem to only be open to truth that aligns with the resurrection as an historical fact.
Like I said earlier, resurrection is not my starting point.
My first priority is the truth, while realizing that it isn't something I can know to be true.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1902 by Stile, posted 01-30-2023 10:00 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1952 by PaulK, posted 02-02-2023 7:30 AM GDR has not replied
 Message 1956 by Stile, posted 02-02-2023 9:04 AM GDR has replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2290
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.9


(1)
Message 1943 of 3694 (905660)
02-01-2023 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1932 by Phat
02-01-2023 10:02 AM


Re: The Spirit Of Sacrificial Giving
Teach a man to fish.
and while he's learning to fish he's still starving you drooling moron. He won't catch much as a corpse. People in need generally need help NOW! not in 3 months.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1932 by Phat, posted 02-01-2023 10:02 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1946 by Phat, posted 02-01-2023 11:36 PM DrJones* has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4443
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 1944 of 3694 (905661)
02-01-2023 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1932 by Phat
02-01-2023 10:02 AM


Re: The Spirit Of Sacrificial Giving
Teach a man to fish. Forget giving him truckloads of fish!!
I'm sure his malnourished kids will be so grateful to you next fishing season. You really are a fucking moron!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1932 by Phat, posted 02-01-2023 10:02 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1945 by Phat, posted 02-01-2023 11:34 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18338
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1945 of 3694 (905662)
02-01-2023 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1944 by Tanypteryx
02-01-2023 11:02 PM


Re: The Spirit Of Sacrificial Giving
The US middle class is not responsible for feeding the world, despite Ringo's insistence to the contrary. The only reason you don't worry about it is you likely get paid by the government for what you do.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1944 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-01-2023 11:02 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1958 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-02-2023 10:38 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18338
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1946 of 3694 (905663)
02-01-2023 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1943 by DrJones*
02-01-2023 8:27 PM


Re: The Spirit Of Sacrificial Giving
As far as the poor in this country, giving them money won't help change their habits and beliefs. If anything, it will teach them to expect the government to help them.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1943 by DrJones*, posted 02-01-2023 8:27 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1948 by DrJones*, posted 02-02-2023 12:18 AM Phat has replied
 Message 1963 by Theodoric, posted 02-02-2023 12:35 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18338
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1947 of 3694 (905664)
02-01-2023 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1924 by ringo
01-31-2023 11:46 AM


Re: What's Important enough?
Why would I do anything He said? And why don't you ever answer that question?
If you people think for one minute that I would give everything up while the rest of you don't, you are crazy.
Jesus may actually agree with you more than He does me, but that's something I will have to work out in my heart. As of now, I don't want a government to legislate what is and is not fair to give up. And I won't vote for anyone who advocates that either.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1924 by ringo, posted 01-31-2023 11:46 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1960 by ringo, posted 02-02-2023 11:46 AM Phat has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2290
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 1948 of 3694 (905665)
02-02-2023 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1946 by Phat
02-01-2023 11:36 PM


Re: The Spirit Of Sacrificial Giving
As far as the poor in this country, giving them money won't help change their habits and beliefs. If anything, it will teach them to expect the government to help them.
but you'll still be helping them. What is christ-like about denying help to those in need?

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1946 by Phat, posted 02-01-2023 11:36 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1949 by Phat, posted 02-02-2023 12:34 AM DrJones* has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18338
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1949 of 3694 (905666)
02-02-2023 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1948 by DrJones*
02-02-2023 12:18 AM


Re: The Spirit Of Sacrificial Giving
Dr.Jones* writes:
What is christ-like about denying help to those in need?
What's NOT Christlike about teaching them to fish(job skills, career help, education) rather than simply handing them a check? They will get food stamp help and section 8 rental assistance as usual but any assistance above and beyond that should be invested in teaching "fishing" skills.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1948 by DrJones*, posted 02-02-2023 12:18 AM DrJones* has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1959 by nwr, posted 02-02-2023 10:50 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 1961 by ringo, posted 02-02-2023 11:49 AM Phat has replied
 Message 1964 by Theodoric, posted 02-02-2023 12:37 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 101 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1950 of 3694 (905667)
02-02-2023 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1846 by ringo
01-23-2023 10:50 AM


Re: I Again Think GDR has Given Up On This Thread
ringoat writes:
And your IQ is 9, so how could you possibly understand what the grown-ups are talking about?
How does it feel to have your arguments regularly shot down in flames by the village idiot, whose IQ is only 9? Your self-esteem must be taking a hammering ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1846 by ringo, posted 01-23-2023 10:50 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1962 by ringo, posted 02-02-2023 11:50 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1965 by Theodoric, posted 02-02-2023 12:38 PM Dredge has not replied

  
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