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Author
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Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1054 of 1864 (905307)
01-22-2023 5:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 1051 by candle2
01-22-2023 3:03 PM
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Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
candle writes: Tangle, you ask why would a living God make His creation suffer if He had an alternative. The truth is that God wants us to experience this. Then he is evil.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1051 by candle2, posted 01-22-2023 3:03 PM | | candle2 has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1057 of 1864 (905311)
01-23-2023 4:10 AM
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Reply to: Message 1056 by candle2
01-22-2023 6:35 PM
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Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
candle writes: Tangle, evil would be to create humans as mindless robots that have no emotions or self determination. I'll ask you the same question I asked Phat who has so far been unable to answer me. If god is able to create a place where evil and suffering doesn't exist and freewill doesn't seem to be a stumbling block ie heaven, why has he made evil and suffering here? Please don't reply with dogma, I won't read it.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1056 by candle2, posted 01-22-2023 6:35 PM | | candle2 has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1065 of 1864 (905324)
01-23-2023 10:57 AM
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Reply to: Message 1059 by Phat
01-23-2023 10:00 AM
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Re: The Problem of Evil overshadows all belief
Phat writes: What other way can one reply
With reason - rational thinking
Its easy to play the role of a rational human grappling with finding logic and reason in their faith. Rather, it's easy to show how silly this Christian fantasy is.
Ive found peace in my search.
If you say so, but it doesn't look that way to me.
You have not.
Really? How do you work that out?
It is likely why I am a believer and you left the faith. The only difference is that you, ringo, and Theodoric lay the blame on God (or more precisely His followers.) I don't. ffs Phat how many times? If we don't believe in a god, how can we blame him for anything?
To be fair, I don't blame socialists, humanists, or unbelievers either. In fact, I'd have to really think about where the blame lies. Blame for what? The human condition? Life the universe and everything? You still haven't answered my question I notice.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1059 by Phat, posted 01-23-2023 10:00 AM | | Phat has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1072 of 1864 (905332)
01-23-2023 11:47 AM
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Reply to: Message 1066 by Phat
01-23-2023 11:03 AM
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Re: The Problem of Evil overshadows all belief
Phat writes: How do you expect me to answer your question when you decided beforehand that it was a rhetorical question designed to have no rational answer EXCEPT your conclusion that Evidence has eliminated God as a reasonable answer. I expect you to be able to defend something you believe. I'd accept the answer that it's a problem that you can't resolve but your faith requires you to believe it anyway. That would be honest and show that you've at least thought about it and recognised the logical paradox involved. It's not a rhetorical question, it's a serious philosophical problem and there are other possible conclusions than god does not exist. But even if my mind is made up, I want to hear your argument. If you have one.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1066 by Phat, posted 01-23-2023 11:03 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1076 of 1864 (905339)
01-23-2023 12:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 1075 by candle2
01-23-2023 12:21 PM
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Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
candle writes: Tangle, tell me how it is possible to create an environment without pain and suffering when the inhabitants are flesh and blood humans. There are several answers to that question, here's three 1. God is all powerful, are you saying that he's not? 2. God has created at least two places for humans that are free of suffering, the Garden of Eden and heaven, so where's the difficulty? 3. There is no reason why we need to be flesh and blood; a soul is enough for both heaven and hell is it not?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1075 by candle2, posted 01-23-2023 12:21 PM | | candle2 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1130 by candle2, posted 02-01-2023 11:11 AM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1091 of 1864 (905478)
01-27-2023 6:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 1090 by GDR
01-27-2023 5:47 PM
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Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
I wish you two could hear yourselves.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1090 by GDR, posted 01-27-2023 5:47 PM | | GDR has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1092 by dwise1, posted 01-27-2023 7:19 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1119 of 1864 (905613)
01-31-2023 3:44 PM
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Reply to: Message 1117 by Phat
01-31-2023 2:27 PM
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Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
Faith writes: im sure you reacted in horror when I decided to take a free online philosophy course. Most Christians that I know wouldn't do it. Granted I wont be throwing my beliefs away anytime soon. Well this is interesting. You think that thinking is dangerous? Christians are frightened of thinking? They think that if you can think properly - and by properly I mean rationally logically, and in a straight line - you'll lose your faith? What a crock of shit that is.Surely a faith can stand up comfortably to reason? If not, is it just for the ignorant, uneducated, gullible and mindless?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1117 by Phat, posted 01-31-2023 2:27 PM | | Phat has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1125 of 1864 (905619)
01-31-2023 5:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 1122 by candle2
01-31-2023 4:21 PM
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Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
candle writes: Tangle, it isn't thinking that concerns Christians. Thinking is a good thing. I took two philosophy classes at Murray State. And, the circles and diagrams can be very beneficial for teaching attorneys to make one think they said one thing while meaning the opposite. God tell His followers to prove everything. So you just go ahead and keep thinking. Well that's all very reassuring candle, so can you now answer the logic question I asked you a few pages ago?
quote:
If god is able to create a place where evil and suffering doesn't exist and freewill doesn't seem to be a stumbling block ie heaven, why has he made evil and suffering here?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1122 by candle2, posted 01-31-2023 4:21 PM | | candle2 has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1129 of 1864 (905626)
02-01-2023 3:13 AM
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Reply to: Message 1127 by candle2
01-31-2023 6:57 PM
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Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
candle writes: Tangle, I did answer it. [Message=1076] candle2 has not replied
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1127 by candle2, posted 01-31-2023 6:57 PM | | candle2 has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1132 of 1864 (905637)
02-01-2023 12:57 PM
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Reply to: Message 1130 by candle2
02-01-2023 11:11 AM
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Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
candle2 writes: You agree that God is all powerful. In fact God is omnipotent. He is omnipresent. He is omniscient. So he's all powerful but not powerful enough to make a place where suffering does not exist? Edited by Tangle, .
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1130 by candle2, posted 02-01-2023 11:11 AM | | candle2 has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Re: Religion & Politics
I'll be there Friday, warm up the bbq.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Re: Religion & Politics
I'm jealous... ... but I'm off to Argentina next week after sea trout so I can live with it for a while
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1146 by Theodoric, posted 02-02-2023 7:41 AM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1561 of 1864 (909298)
03-31-2023 8:24 AM
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Reply to: Message 1560 by Dredge
03-31-2023 6:11 AM
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Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
"do be, do be, do" Sinatra
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1560 by Dredge, posted 03-31-2023 6:11 AM | | Dredge has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1582 of 1864 (909398)
04-02-2023 4:45 PM
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Reply to: Message 1581 by Phat
04-02-2023 4:09 PM
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Re: IF Jesus is/was a myth
Phat writes: Tangle even claims that Christianity is dying a slow yet steady death globally...though the jury is out on that one. It's not a claim, it's a fact and the jury came in on it years ago. The decline of Christianity in the Western world is the decreasing Christian affiliation in the Western world. While most countries in the Western world were historically almost exclusively Christian, the post-World War II era has seen developed countries with modern, secular educational facilities shifting towards post-Christian, secular, globalized, multicultural and multifaith societies. While Christianity is currently the predominant religion in Latin America,[1] Europe,[2] Canada[3][4] and the United States,[5] the religion is declining in many of these areas, including Western Europe,[6][7] North America,[8] and Oceania. A decline in Christianity among countries in Latin America's Southern Cone has also contributed to a rise in irreligion in Latin America.[9] Pew Research Center (PEW) has found a retention rate among Western European Christians closer to 83% (ranging from 57% in the Netherlands to 91% in Austria),[2] however, the overwhelming majority of those who have left Christianity in Western Europe now identify as religiously unaffiliated.[2] More recent study published in 2022 by Pew Research Center, have found a retention rate among American Christians closer to 67%, and cited that the decline of Christianity is primarily due to people leaving Christianity and choosing to have no religious affiliation (rather than due to people converting to other religions).[10] Pew Research Center projects that Christians will make up less than half of the American population by 2070, with estimated ranges for that year falling between 35% and 46% of the American population (down from 64% in 2022 and from 91% in 1976).[10] Decline of Christianity in the Western world - Wikipedia
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1581 by Phat, posted 04-02-2023 4:09 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1586 of 1864 (909403)
04-03-2023 2:24 AM
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Reply to: Message 1583 by Dredge
04-02-2023 5:33 PM
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Re: IF Jesus is/was a myth
Dredge writes: The gates of hell will not prevail against the Church (Matt 16:28). In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. (Tolkein. Ch.1)
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1583 by Dredge, posted 04-02-2023 5:33 PM | | Dredge has not replied |
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