Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."

Kleinman:

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I know how to do a simple probability problem and apply the multiplication rule to compute joint probabilities such as occurs with descent with modification and random recombination.

dwise1:

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You may know how to perform the calculations to multiply two probabilities together, but since you have no clue how evolution works then you are unable to apply your arithmetic skills to solving actual problems

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dwise1 still can't do the mathematics of for the Kishony and Lenski biological evolution experiments. Your C++ programming skills are failing you. Perhaps if you studied C+++ programming you could explain these experiments and how the multiplication rule causes these evolutionary processes to take a billion replications for each adaptive step.

dwise1:

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And yet again LittleMan declares what a stupid idiot he is.
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1671 messages posted and each and every one of them completely content-free. Except for his testimonial of what a completely clueless idiot and troll he is.
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What an idiot!

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dwise1 still doesn't understand descent with modification and how the multiplication rule affects this process. dwise1 needs a clue, mutations are random. Try writing a C++ program that computes the joint probability of two or more adaptive mutations occurring on some member of a lineage. Then you might be able to do the mathematics of the Kishony and Lenksi biological evolutionary experiments and explain how drug resistance evolves.

Kleinman:

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dwise1 still doesn't understand descent with modification and how the multiplication rule affects this process.

dwise1:

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Oh, the irony!
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I do understand, whereas you continually demonstrate that you have no clue!
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Let's use the state lottery example to show your misunderstanding.

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dwise1 still doesn't understand descent with modification. Try hard, you can even use your C++ programming skills. An adaptive mutation is a random occurrence just like winning a lottery is. Compute the probability of two adaptive mutations occurring on a lineage. Use the same math.Here's a simple analogy to understand natural selection in an adaptation process.Consider if for your family to survive that your family needs to win two lotteries. And the probability of winning one lottery is 1 in a million, and the probability of winning the other lottery is 1 in a million. For you to win both lotteries, that probability is 1 in a million times 1 in a million equals 1 in a trillion, a very low probability indeed. But let's say, you win one of those lotteries. And because of this, you are a very wealthy man and you can raise a very large family. And all your descendants start buying tickets to the second lottery. As soon as you have enough descendants, there will be a high probability that one of your descendants wins that second lottery for your family.The probability of an adaptive mutation occurring on some variant in a population depends on the number of replications that variant does and the mutation rate, nothing else. There are lots of factors that affect that variant from doing the necessary number of replications for the next adaptive mutation. Competition is one of those factors. It is also possible that a single adaptive mutation does not exist for the given selection conditions. But it all comes down to the fact that the number of replications and the mutation rate determine that probability. And adaptive evolutionary events don't add, they are linked by the multiplication rule as are your chances of winning two lotteries.That's how the Kishony and Lenski experiments work. Try doing the math.

Kleinman:

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You are already in way over your head....

ringo:

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You're in no position to say that. You have demonstrated that you don't know the first thing about evolution. Come back when you have learned the difference between cousins and grandparents.

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Sure I am. I know how your imaginary relatives evolve drug resistance. Too bad that biologists can't explain it.

Kleinman:

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I know how your imaginary relatives evolve drug resistance.

ringo:

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If you think my relatives and your relatives and everybody's relatives are imaginary, you know nothing.

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ringo, you are not related to bacteria and you don't know how bacteria evolve drug resistance and neither do biologists.

Kleinman:

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ringo, you are not related to bacteria....

ringo:

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I am and you are. You can disown your family all you like but it doesn't change your DNA.

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You have been indoctrinated by people that don't understand biological evolution. There are no transition fossils, it takes a billion replications for each adaptive mutation in the Kishony and Lenski experiments and that is in a constant environment with only a single selection pressure. Universal common descent is pseudo-scientific mythology spread by people who can't do mathematics properly and don't understand how to apply the laws of physics to biological evolution. You have bought a claim perpetuated by biologists that can't explain how drug resistance evolves or why cancer treatments fail.

From Message 2734

AZPaul3:

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This thread has been of no discussion value, or fun, for some time.
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I'm thinking this thing should be closed.
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Admin: Request you consider closing this topic.

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And now AZPaul3's recent contribution:

Kleinman:

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You have been indoctrinated by people that don't understand biological evolution. There are no transition fossils, it takes a billion replications for each (blah blah blah AZPaul's contribution)

AZPaul3:

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Yes, Kleinman. Of course, Kleiman. And more blah blah back at you, Kleinman.
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I guess you really don't know how pathetically lost you look.
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Kleinman, no one gives a shit. Taking the spirit from jar in Message 36 you are a clown. Your only value here is a mild chuckle. We really don't give a flyin' flip.

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AZPaul3 doesn't do well when his bubble is burst.

Kleinman:

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You have been indoctrinated by people that don't understand biological evolution.

ringo:

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The only one here who doesn't understand biological evolution is you. You don't even understand that grandparents are different from cousins. That is an abysmal misunderstanding of biological evolution.

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If you or any biologist understood biological evolution, you could explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail. But you don't and biologists don't.
Message 2787

Kleinman:

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AZPaul3 doesn't do well when his bubble is burst.

ringo:

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Kleinman looks at his cousins and sees his grandparents.
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When Kleinman sees bubbles, he's seeing the inside of his head.

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ringo is not doing so well either, but that's because he has been indoctinated by people that don't understand biological evolution.

Kleinman:

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If you or any biologist understood biological evolution, you could explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.

ringo:

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Yup. They can. They do. If you understood the difference between grandparents and cousins, you might be able to understand them.

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vimsey gave it his best shot by posting a link that couldn't explain the Kishony experiment. So you have a six-shooter, perhaps you could do better, but you won't. It is so sad the way you have been indoctrinated.

Kleinman:

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... a link that couldn't explain the Kishony experiment.

ringo:

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Couldn'nt explain it to YOU, maybe, but nobody else seems to have a problem understanding it. When you learn the difference between your grandfather and your cousin, you might be able to understand the Kishony experiment too.

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vimesey couldn't explain it to anyone because his link to that paper did not have the correct mathematics. The mathematics is actually very simple, dwise1 almost does it correctly. The mutation rate gives the probability of success in a single replication (a mutation occurs). Since the mutation rate is a very small number, it will take many replications to have a reasonable probability of having a single success. Mutations are also random events so the joint probabilities of more than a single adaptive mutation occurring on a lineage must be computed by multiplication. The Kishony (and the Lenski) experiment demonstrates these mathematical facts. Your indoctrination prevents you and biologists from understanding these simple mathematical facts of life. That's why biologists have failed to explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.

APaul3:

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Oh my! I feel a bubble burst coming on!

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That is because your mind is dull of comprehension.

Kleinman:

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vimesey couldn't explain it to anyone....

ringo:

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I'd be happy if he could explain to you the difference between grandparents and cousins. But that seems to be beyond your understanding.

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Try attributing the quote correctly, silly tenderfoot.

Theodoric:

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What does "dull of comprehension" mean? Seems an odd combination of words.

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Theodoric is slow of understanding.

Tanypteryx:

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It just means he doesn't know what he's talking about.

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Tany is confused, he thinks we are talking about his delusions about ERVs, all 200,000 infections in a single lineage.

Theodoric:

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What does "dull of comprehension" mean? Seems an odd combination of words.

Stile:

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Just a keyboard typo. He pressed "d" instead of "f" by accident.
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He's also dull of ducks.

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There is no typo error on that one. Just the correct description of AZPaul3's understanding of the evolution of drug resistance. And your understanding is no better.