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Author Topic:   Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 2743 of 2926 (904823)
01-08-2023 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 2742 by Kleinman
01-08-2023 10:41 AM


Re: Forewarned.
Neither does your creationism and your abject ignorance of evolution. And of mathematical modeling. And the difference between sexual and asexual reproduction.
Please stop your constant reaffirmations of your own ignorance and your stupidity. We already know that you don't know anything! You don't have to keep proving it!
 
ABE:
Also learn something about biology so that you won't be so pathetic wallowing in your ignorance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2742 by Kleinman, posted 01-08-2023 10:41 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2745 by Kleinman, posted 01-08-2023 1:34 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 2751 of 2926 (904840)
01-08-2023 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 2745 by Kleinman
01-08-2023 1:34 PM


Re: Forewarned.
Message received and understood:
  • You are still a completely clueless idiot who is abjectly ignorant of biology, evolution, how to apply mathematics (being good with multiplication tables is worthless if you don't know what to multiple and when), and just about everything else.
  • You have chosen to waste the bandwidth of 1660 messages to repeatedly demonstrate what a completely clueless idiot you are. We got that message the first time.
  • You are nothing but a mindless troll in service to your silly troll god.
  • Your ignorance of evolution is so abject that you always run away in terror from ringo's simple question (this latest from his Message 2749:
    When YOU understand that A → B and A → C are not the same as B →C, you can try to talk to the gownups.
 
 
You would understand this if you understood the effect of the multiplication rule, but you don't.
I do indeed understand the multiplication rule, which is how I know that you have no clue how to use it!
And you, you stupid willfully ignorant idiot, have such arrogance as to falsely claim competence that you clearly do not possess?
What a fucking idiot!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2745 by Kleinman, posted 01-08-2023 1:34 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2752 by Kleinman, posted 01-08-2023 6:32 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2753 of 2926 (904843)
01-08-2023 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 2752 by Kleinman
01-08-2023 6:32 PM


Re: Forewarned.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2752 by Kleinman, posted 01-08-2023 6:32 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2754 by Kleinman, posted 01-09-2023 10:23 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(2)
Message 2767 of 2926 (905414)
01-26-2023 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 2766 by Phat
01-26-2023 7:46 AM


Re: Forewarned.
I would find it a bit presumptuous to place my own scholarly acumen as being superior to most biologists.
He's a creationist. That's what creationists do, especially the creationists who have no clue what they are talking about.
Dunning-Kruger on steroids!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2766 by Phat, posted 01-26-2023 7:46 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2770 by Kleinman, posted 01-26-2023 12:35 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2771 of 2926 (905442)
01-26-2023 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 2769 by Kleinman
01-26-2023 12:34 PM


Re: Forewarned.
I know how to do a simple probability problem and apply the multiplication rule to compute joint probabilities such as occurs with descent with modification and random recombination.
You're still the same stupid idiot! You're so stupid that you will never be able to learn anything! You're too stupid to be able to realize how stupid you are!
That is why everybody (except for a couple of your clueless fellow creationists) is rolling on the floor laughing at you! (ROFL)
Yet again with that stupid boast you proclaim to the world how abjectly ignorant you are of evolution and how to apply mathematics to solving an actual problem.
You may know how to perform the calculations to multiply two probabilities together, but since you have no clue how evolution works then you are unable to apply your arithmetic skills to solving actual problems -- HINT: the secret is in how you set up the problem, which involves producing a correct math model (math models being something that you have opposed here). You're nothing more than a little kid who knows his multiplication tables and is so very proud of it that he keeps going up to strangers to brag about being such a genius even though has absolutely no clue how to apply his arithmetic skills to an actual problem (word problems completely baffle him, so he stubbornly pretends that they do not exist).
You do not know evolution works, so you do not know how to apply probability to evolution. You do not understand that "A → B and A → C are not the same as B →C (ringo's repeated question to you that you refuse to respond to because you do not know the answer nor even understand the question (which yet again demonstrates how stupid an idiot you are), you do not understand that your grandparents are not your cousins, you do not understand that sexual reproduction is different from asexual reproduction, etc.
You are nothing but a fucking idiot and you will always be nothing but a fucking idiot. To quote Marcus Lycus to you yet again about his slave who won't ever do anything to try to improve himself:
quote:
But you'll never learn, you'll be a eunuch all your life.
You'll never learn. You'll be nothing but a stupid creationist all your life. Laughed at and scorned for your stupidity everywhere you go -- except when you slink into the darkness of fellow creationists, all of you fearful of the clear and bright gaze of normals.
There is a bit of wisdom that you should learn and follow (Ha! Fat chance of that!).
Here it is:
quote:
It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt.
That is usually attributed to either Abraham Lincoln or Mark Twain, though it seems to have been derived from Proverbs 17:28:
quote:
Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue.
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.
But you'll never learn. You're an idiot and you will remain an idiot all your life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2769 by Kleinman, posted 01-26-2023 12:34 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2773 by Kleinman, posted 01-26-2023 3:53 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2772 of 2926 (905443)
01-26-2023 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 2770 by Kleinman
01-26-2023 12:35 PM


Re: Forewarned.
dwise1 gets his clues from people that don't understand biological evolution.
No, rather that would be you.
I get my clues from a network of disciplines which you sadly do not understand (including how to apply probability).
That includes biology and biologists, who are the ones who study biological evolution and hence understand it. They (and I) even understand ringo's question: "A → B and A → C are not the same as B →C . We understand not only that that is true, but we also understand why that is true; to you that (ie, that that is true and why) will always remain a mystery because you are too stupid to even try to understand it.
Please try to break your vicious cycle by trying to learn something.
At the very least learn about the Dunning-Kruger effect for which you are the poster child.
Since you will never follow that link out of fear of learning something, basically the Dunning-Kruger effect explains how stupid people fool themselves into thinking that they are experts in a subject that they know nothing about. Furthermore, they think that their delusional "expertise" far surpasses the actual expertise of the actual experts. And they are too stupid to even begin to realize the sheer idiocy of what they're doing.
That is you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2770 by Kleinman, posted 01-26-2023 12:35 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2774 of 2926 (905446)
01-26-2023 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 2773 by Kleinman
01-26-2023 3:53 PM


Re: Forewarned.
And yet again LittleMan declares what a stupid idiot he is.
1671 messages posted and each and every one of them completely content-free. Except for his testimonial of what a completely clueless idiot and troll he is.
What an idiot!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2773 by Kleinman, posted 01-26-2023 3:53 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2775 by Kleinman, posted 01-26-2023 4:18 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2776 of 2926 (905449)
01-26-2023 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 2775 by Kleinman
01-26-2023 4:18 PM


Re: Forewarned.
dwise1 still doesn't understand descent with modification and how the multiplication rule affects this process.
Oh, the irony!
I do understand, whereas you continually demonstrate that you have no clue!
Let's use the state lottery example to show your misunderstanding. "Winning the lottery" would be acquiring a new trait, eg through mutation. Using some arbitrary probability to illustrate the impact of certain probability calculations, we'll use the probability of winning one of the draw games in California:
pwin = 2.4×10-8 .
You see (or rather you refuse to), you insist that the lottery math model would be to observe one single bacterium and requiring that single individual bacterium to "win the lottery twice in a row". That would be P = pwin2 = (2.4×10-8)2 = 5.76×10-16 .
But that's not how the biology works. Instead, we are dealing with a population of bacteria, exactly how those lottery tickets are bought by a population of millions of Californians. The question is not how likely it is for you or for me to win, but rather that someone, anyone, will win.
You want to apply the multiplication rule to that, but we cannot do that directly and naïvely as you insist on doing. Rather, the math model (for which you foolishly have nothing but disdain) would be:
Psomebody wins = 1 - peverybody loses
peverybody loses = plosepopulation
plose = 1 - pwin
population = 39,000,000 (based on the population of California)
plose = 1 - pwin
          = 1 - 2.4×10-8
          = 0.999999976
peverybody loses = plosepopulation
          = 0.999999976 39,000,000
          = 0.39
Psomebody wins = 1 - peverybody loses
          = 1 - 0.39 = 0.61
Those odds are not bad. Anyone would want to be able to go to Vegas with those odds.
But that's just one "game" (or single generation of bacteria). The lottery game happens twice a week, and so on:
  • P(at least one win in a week) = 0.8479
  • P(at least one win in a month of 4 weeks) = 0.9994648
  • P(at least one win in a year) ≈ 1
Sorry to hit you with math, something that you've demonstrated you don't understand, but it was necessary for clarity.
Your "model" of picking one single individual bacterium and observing it exclusive of all the other bacteria in the population is obviously wrong and gives absolutely useless results. The basic problem with your "model" is that it does not in any manner describe what's happening in that population of bacteria. Nor even with how life works. We have no idea what the fuck you think you're trying to describe, you're so divorced from reality!
Rather, our model of the first mutation appearing anywhere in the population does describe what does happen in that population.
Now, what about that anybody who, after having won the first time, goes on to win a second time? Your faulty approach of making that p2 (5.76×10-16) does not describe reality.
Rather, in reality his second win would be equal to p (2.4×10-8) which is about 100 million times more probable. But that is only if his second win is in the very next game. Far more realistic would be for him to continue to play and lose many times before winning the lottery that second time. The same complement rule (which you do not understand and never will due to your willful stupidity) describing his initial win would be used, though this time modeling the probability of an individual playing n times and winning at least once -- in this case (assume playing 5 tickets at a time for a year) our "population" is just over 500 instead of 39 million, so that second win would still be improbable just as it is for all other individuals playing the lottery.
But in the bacteria colony, reality is a bit more different.
The bacterium that acquires the first mutation does not need to also acquire the second mutation -- that is what you're trying to argue for, isn't it? Rather, that bacterium will reproduce multiple serial times as will its offspring. Therefore, we would need to determine the probability of one of those offspring acquiring the second mutation.
Your "model" (I realize that you really hate that "m-word", almost as much as you hate the "e-word") fails to describe or deal with that reality, whereas our model is based on that reality.
I explained all that to you before in Message 868 and elsewhere, but you are too stubbornly and willfully stupid to understand the math.
The math is not that complicated, so you shouldn't be so afraid of it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2775 by Kleinman, posted 01-26-2023 4:18 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2777 by Kleinman, posted 01-26-2023 6:41 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
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