Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 69 (9102 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: sensei
Upcoming Birthdays: Tusko
Post Volume: Total: 904,253 Year: 1,134/14,231 Month: 58/1,076 Week: 167/234 Day: 19/39 Hour: 3/5


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."
ringo
Member
Posts: 20810
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 2761 of 2790 (904869)
01-09-2023 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2760 by Kleinman
01-09-2023 12:11 PM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman writes:
If you understand your own definition you could explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.
Nonsense.
If YOU understood mathematics at all, what I am talking about is YOUR mistaken impression that mammals evoled from fish. I am telling you that mammals and fish evolved from a common ancestor. Mammals and fish are cousins. Fish are not the ancestors of mammals. Do you understand the difference between a grandparent and a cousin?
None of this has anything to do with drug resistance or cancer treatments. You are nowhere near able to understand those.
Kleinman writes:
you would need to understand some introductory probability theory.
You have no basis to talk about probability theory.
Kleinman writes:
I understand you are too busy with your Sharon Stone fetish.
You understand nothing.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2760 by Kleinman, posted 01-09-2023 12:11 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2762 by Kleinman, posted 01-09-2023 12:30 PM ringo has replied

  
Kleinman
Member
Posts: 1679
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2762 of 2790 (904871)
01-09-2023 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 2761 by ringo
01-09-2023 12:20 PM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman:
If you understand your own definition you could explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.
ringo:
Nonsense.

Of course, your understanding of your own definitions is nonsense. That's why you think you are related to fecal bacteria. Did you know your relatives evolve resistance to antibiotics?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2761 by ringo, posted 01-09-2023 12:20 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2763 by ringo, posted 01-10-2023 10:46 AM Kleinman has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20810
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 2763 of 2790 (904885)
01-10-2023 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 2762 by Kleinman
01-09-2023 12:30 PM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman writes:
Of course, your understanding of your own definitions is nonsense.
No. Everybody understands my definitions except YOU.
Kleinman writes:
That's why you think you are related to fecal bacteria.
WE (including YOU) are related to fecal bacteria and to fish and to reptiles and to birds and to cows and to pigs and to all living things. This has been known ever since Linnaeus classified them in the 1700s and it has more recently been confirmed by DNA.
Kleinman writes:
Did you know your relatives evolve resistance to antibiotics?
There's no point in going into any depth with you until you understand the difference between relatives and ancestors. Your cousin is not your grandfather.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2762 by Kleinman, posted 01-09-2023 12:30 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2764 by Kleinman, posted 01-25-2023 10:48 AM ringo has replied

  
Kleinman
Member
Posts: 1679
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2764 of 2790 (905384)
01-25-2023 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 2763 by ringo
01-10-2023 10:46 AM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman:
Did you know your relatives evolve resistance to antibiotics?
ringo:
There's no point in going into any depth with you until you understand the difference between relatives and ancestors. Your cousin is not your grandfather.

You are already in way over your head, even when you are wearing your 10-gallon hat. You can't explain the evolution of drug resistance but neither can biologists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2763 by ringo, posted 01-10-2023 10:46 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2765 by vimesey, posted 01-26-2023 4:53 AM Kleinman has replied
 Message 2766 by Phat, posted 01-26-2023 7:46 AM Kleinman has replied
 Message 2778 by ringo, posted 01-27-2023 12:21 PM Kleinman has replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1382
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 2765 of 2790 (905401)
01-26-2023 4:53 AM
Reply to: Message 2764 by Kleinman
01-25-2023 10:48 AM


Re: Forewarned.
You can't explain the evolution of drug resistance but neither can biologists.
Yeah they can. Drug resistance is driven by mutation and selection - as are all evolutionary processes.
Have a read of this article, which explains it in some depth: Controlling the Evolution of Resistance - PMC

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2764 by Kleinman, posted 01-25-2023 10:48 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2768 by Kleinman, posted 01-26-2023 12:33 PM vimesey has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17034
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 2766 of 2790 (905408)
01-26-2023 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 2764 by Kleinman
01-25-2023 10:48 AM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman writes:
You can't explain the evolution of drug resistance but neither can biologists.
This seems to suggest that *you* can and have....trumpeting your own horn as it were. I would find it a bit presumptuous to place my own scholarly acumen as being superior to most biologists.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2764 by Kleinman, posted 01-25-2023 10:48 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2767 by dwise1, posted 01-26-2023 9:43 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 2769 by Kleinman, posted 01-26-2023 12:34 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5558
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 2767 of 2790 (905414)
01-26-2023 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 2766 by Phat
01-26-2023 7:46 AM


Re: Forewarned.
I would find it a bit presumptuous to place my own scholarly acumen as being superior to most biologists.
He's a creationist. That's what creationists do, especially the creationists who have no clue what they are talking about.
Dunning-Kruger on steroids!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2766 by Phat, posted 01-26-2023 7:46 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2770 by Kleinman, posted 01-26-2023 12:35 PM dwise1 has replied

  
Kleinman
Member
Posts: 1679
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2768 of 2790 (905430)
01-26-2023 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 2765 by vimesey
01-26-2023 4:53 AM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman:
You can't explain the evolution of drug resistance but neither can biologists.
vimesey:
Yeah they can. Drug resistance is driven by mutation and selection - as are all evolutionary processes.

Have a read of this article, which explains it in some depth: Controlling the Evolution of Resistance - PMC

Neither you nor the authors of your link understand the effect of the multiplication rule of probabilities on biological evolution. If you think I'm wrong, apply their math to the Kishony experiment and show how it works. After all, that experiment demonstrates the evolution of drug resistance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2765 by vimesey, posted 01-26-2023 4:53 AM vimesey has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member
Posts: 1679
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2769 of 2790 (905431)
01-26-2023 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 2766 by Phat
01-26-2023 7:46 AM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman:
You can't explain the evolution of drug resistance but neither can biologists.
Phat:
This seems to suggest that *you* can and have....trumpeting your own horn as it were. I would find it a bit presumptuous to place my own scholarly acumen as being superior to most biologists.

I know how to do a simple probability problem and apply the multiplication rule to compute joint probabilities such as occurs with descent with modification and random recombination. Biologists have failed to do this simple math, no matter how you want to frame this discussion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2766 by Phat, posted 01-26-2023 7:46 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2771 by dwise1, posted 01-26-2023 3:29 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member
Posts: 1679
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2770 of 2790 (905432)
01-26-2023 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2767 by dwise1
01-26-2023 9:43 AM


Re: Forewarned.
Phat:
I would find it a bit presumptuous to place my own scholarly acumen as being superior to most biologists.
dwise1:
He's a creationist. That's what creationists do, especially the creationists who have no clue what they are talking about.

Dunning-Kruger on steroids!

dwise1 still can't explain the Kishony and Lenski biological evolutionary experiments. dwise1 gets his clues from people that don't understand biological evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2767 by dwise1, posted 01-26-2023 9:43 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2772 by dwise1, posted 01-26-2023 3:45 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5558
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 2771 of 2790 (905442)
01-26-2023 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 2769 by Kleinman
01-26-2023 12:34 PM


Re: Forewarned.
I know how to do a simple probability problem and apply the multiplication rule to compute joint probabilities such as occurs with descent with modification and random recombination.
You're still the same stupid idiot! You're so stupid that you will never be able to learn anything! You're too stupid to be able to realize how stupid you are!
That is why everybody (except for a couple of your clueless fellow creationists) is rolling on the floor laughing at you! (ROFL)
Yet again with that stupid boast you proclaim to the world how abjectly ignorant you are of evolution and how to apply mathematics to solving an actual problem.
You may know how to perform the calculations to multiply two probabilities together, but since you have no clue how evolution works then you are unable to apply your arithmetic skills to solving actual problems -- HINT: the secret is in how you set up the problem, which involves producing a correct math model (math models being something that you have opposed here). You're nothing more than a little kid who knows his multiplication tables and is so very proud of it that he keeps going up to strangers to brag about being such a genius even though has absolutely no clue how to apply his arithmetic skills to an actual problem (word problems completely baffle him, so he stubbornly pretends that they do not exist).
You do not know evolution works, so you do not know how to apply probability to evolution. You do not understand that "A → B and A → C are not the same as B →C (ringo's repeated question to you that you refuse to respond to because you do not know the answer nor even understand the question (which yet again demonstrates how stupid an idiot you are), you do not understand that your grandparents are not your cousins, you do not understand that sexual reproduction is different from asexual reproduction, etc.
You are nothing but a fucking idiot and you will always be nothing but a fucking idiot. To quote Marcus Lycus to you yet again about his slave who won't ever do anything to try to improve himself:
quote:
But you'll never learn, you'll be a eunuch all your life.
You'll never learn. You'll be nothing but a stupid creationist all your life. Laughed at and scorned for your stupidity everywhere you go -- except when you slink into the darkness of fellow creationists, all of you fearful of the clear and bright gaze of normals.
There is a bit of wisdom that you should learn and follow (Ha! Fat chance of that!).
Here it is:
quote:
It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt.
That is usually attributed to either Abraham Lincoln or Mark Twain, though it seems to have been derived from Proverbs 17:28:
quote:
Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue.
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.
But you'll never learn. You're an idiot and you will remain an idiot all your life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2769 by Kleinman, posted 01-26-2023 12:34 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2773 by Kleinman, posted 01-26-2023 3:53 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5558
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 2772 of 2790 (905443)
01-26-2023 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 2770 by Kleinman
01-26-2023 12:35 PM


Re: Forewarned.
dwise1 gets his clues from people that don't understand biological evolution.
No, rather that would be you.
I get my clues from a network of disciplines which you sadly do not understand (including how to apply probability).
That includes biology and biologists, who are the ones who study biological evolution and hence understand it. They (and I) even understand ringo's question: "A → B and A → C are not the same as B →C . We understand not only that that is true, but we also understand why that is true; to you that (ie, that that is true and why) will always remain a mystery because you are too stupid to even try to understand it.
Please try to break your vicious cycle by trying to learn something.
At the very least learn about the Dunning-Kruger effect for which you are the poster child.
Since you will never follow that link out of fear of learning something, basically the Dunning-Kruger effect explains how stupid people fool themselves into thinking that they are experts in a subject that they know nothing about. Furthermore, they think that their delusional "expertise" far surpasses the actual expertise of the actual experts. And they are too stupid to even begin to realize the sheer idiocy of what they're doing.
That is you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2770 by Kleinman, posted 01-26-2023 12:35 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member
Posts: 1679
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2773 of 2790 (905444)
01-26-2023 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 2771 by dwise1
01-26-2023 3:29 PM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman:
I know how to do a simple probability problem and apply the multiplication rule to compute joint probabilities such as occurs with descent with modification and random recombination.
dwise1:
You may know how to perform the calculations to multiply two probabilities together, but since you have no clue how evolution works then you are unable to apply your arithmetic skills to solving actual problems

dwise1 still can't do the mathematics of for the Kishony and Lenski biological evolution experiments. Your C++ programming skills are failing you. Perhaps if you studied C+++ programming you could explain these experiments and how the multiplication rule causes these evolutionary processes to take a billion replications for each adaptive step.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2771 by dwise1, posted 01-26-2023 3:29 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2774 by dwise1, posted 01-26-2023 4:01 PM Kleinman has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5558
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 2774 of 2790 (905446)
01-26-2023 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 2773 by Kleinman
01-26-2023 3:53 PM


Re: Forewarned.
And yet again LittleMan declares what a stupid idiot he is.
1671 messages posted and each and every one of them completely content-free. Except for his testimonial of what a completely clueless idiot and troll he is.
What an idiot!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2773 by Kleinman, posted 01-26-2023 3:53 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2775 by Kleinman, posted 01-26-2023 4:18 PM dwise1 has replied

  
Kleinman
Member
Posts: 1679
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2775 of 2790 (905448)
01-26-2023 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 2774 by dwise1
01-26-2023 4:01 PM


Re: Forewarned.
dwise1:
And yet again LittleMan declares what a stupid idiot he is.

1671 messages posted and each and every one of them completely content-free. Except for his testimonial of what a completely clueless idiot and troll he is.

What an idiot!
dwise1 still doesn't understand descent with modification and how the multiplication rule affects this process. dwise1 needs a clue, mutations are random. Try writing a C++ program that computes the joint probability of two or more adaptive mutations occurring on some member of a lineage. Then you might be able to do the mathematics of the Kishony and Lenksi biological evolutionary experiments and explain how drug resistance evolves.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2774 by dwise1, posted 01-26-2023 4:01 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2776 by dwise1, posted 01-26-2023 6:09 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2022 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2023