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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1298 of 1429 (903681)
12-15-2022 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1297 by xongsmith
12-15-2022 4:01 AM


Re: UCD: Gift From God
Good point, Xongsmith. I trust Modern Pharma for some things and not so much for others, but overall I realize that the onus for good health is my responsibility. I won't go to the natural foods store and buy willow bark. I will simply take a couple of aspirin. I trust the process and inventiveness of humanity to a substantial degree. Of course, having been given intelligence by (I believe) my Creator, I only gain wisdom through surrender, (AA concepts) self discipline,meditation, and mindfulness.
There is a time for a prayer group agreeing that a person receive full healing. And there is a time to trust science to help with that persons healing.
I could attend Mass 7 days a week and immerse myself in the church. Trusting God (as I understand Him) is an important part of my life. But so is helping others. So is expressing myself thoroughly and honestly in this Forum. Yes, we love to call each other names, but a core part of this Forums mission and purpose starts with a level of respect for the intelligence of our opponent.(Yes, we *do* play chess, even if it is political chess, E versus C chess, or anecdotal chess. We Kibbutz here. Ringo put it well.)
I rant and rave about homeless people, for example. But when I go to work at my job, I am one block from the corridor of homelessness that plagues Denver, and I can honestly say that I love those people more than I hate them. Our debate can be broken down quite simply.
Dredge writes:
Which drug or vaccine could not have been developed if no one had "discovered" that humans and potatoes evolved from the same organism (UCD)?
Are you implying that we could have lived like Quakers,been blissfully unaware and unconcerned about the discipline of scientific progress, and still progress as a species towards developing new drugs, new chemo treatments (for example) and new methods of understanding through prayer meetings and a simplified lifestyle alone? The majority of us chose not to. I wonder why that is?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1297 by xongsmith, posted 12-15-2022 4:01 AM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 1299 of 1429 (903682)
12-15-2022 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1292 by Dredge
12-14-2022 10:28 PM


On A Similar Note...
Dredge writes:
Which drug or vaccine could not have been developed if no one had "discovered" that humans and potatoes evolved from the same organism (UCD)? ... and then explain why.
First of all, the discipline of understanding another mans theory is the exact process through which vaccines,Chemotherapy treatments, even over the counter cough medicines were developed. You are a good Catholic, right? Explain any advances in the field of medicine among the clergy and laymen of the RCC that successfully moved forward in our (human) "fight" against childhood diseases or cancer treatments that willfully avoided the mainstream consensus at oh I dunno...UCLA or the Mayo clinic?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1292 by Dredge, posted 12-14-2022 10:28 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1302 by ringo, posted 12-15-2022 11:35 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 1386 by Dredge, posted 12-22-2022 8:10 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1324 of 1429 (903902)
12-18-2022 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1322 by AZPaul3
12-18-2022 8:59 AM


Stale Communion and amusing musings
"dead Jesus" has little to do with this topic. The issue is Dredge's intelligence. Surely he is an independent thinker, one would assume.
AZ addressing Dredge writes:
Except you don't really expect any learned response.
Well I do. I start out by assuming that anyone in this forum who stays around more than a month has basic intelligence. Until they prove me wrong.
All I have heard Dredge say is that "Darwinoids" can't think." I see little counter-evidence from his learned position. To be fair, I am still reading back through the topic, however.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1322 by AZPaul3, posted 12-18-2022 8:59 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1326 by AZPaul3, posted 12-18-2022 11:37 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1328 by Dredge, posted 12-18-2022 12:24 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 1345 by ringo, posted 12-19-2022 11:37 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1325 of 1429 (903903)
12-18-2022 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1323 by Dredge
12-18-2022 9:21 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
Darwinoids make up bs stories and tell pork-pies all the time...
They accuse you of trolling. I do note, however, that you spend a fair amount of time compiling a post. You never commented on Message 1188 You only quoted it.
I hear that Republicans spread propaganda.
I hear that Democrats have an agenda.
More to the point, I hear that Creationists lie and employ PRATTS, with little original thought.
And then you accuse your opposition of being "Darwinoids".
Even if they accepted that label and applied it to the peanut gallery, what does that have to do with their intelligence? (or lack thereof)
And where do you get the sources which you quote?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1323 by Dredge, posted 12-18-2022 9:21 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1327 by Dredge, posted 12-18-2022 12:18 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 1329 by Dredge, posted 12-18-2022 1:32 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 1330 by Dredge, posted 12-18-2022 1:33 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 1331 by Dredge, posted 12-18-2022 1:36 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 1332 by Dredge, posted 12-18-2022 1:42 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1355 of 1429 (904002)
12-20-2022 6:32 AM
Reply to: Message 664 by ringo
08-15-2022 12:28 PM


Re: To Know: Two Different Definitions
well if that's true, I fit the definition of a troll. But of course, I do not see myself that way. At worst, I am guilty of starting new posts and, as you say, "running away" from answering old ones. I get that from my years arguing with jar.
That old curmudgeon would never let me get an argument off the ground. He would engage, ridicule, and demolish my arguments much the same way that Japanese planes attacking Pearl Harbor strafed all of the US planes before they could get off the ground. In other words, he would reframe the argument before I could get my own plane off of the ground!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 664 by ringo, posted 08-15-2022 12:28 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1361 by ringo, posted 12-20-2022 10:51 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1356 of 1429 (904003)
12-20-2022 6:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1353 by AZPaul3
12-19-2022 4:47 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Of course, speaking of trolling, it appears that you are also poking the sleeping Catholic Beast in order to get an emotional reaction out of our Dredge, here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1353 by AZPaul3, posted 12-19-2022 4:47 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1357 of 1429 (904004)
12-20-2022 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1354 by Dredge
12-19-2022 10:14 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
Lady, what r u talking about?
Are you talking about his avatar? What respectable lady would call herself "ringoat"? Besides, I think that's a boy, though I'm not sure.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1354 by Dredge, posted 12-19-2022 10:14 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1364 by Dredge, posted 12-20-2022 11:17 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1358 of 1429 (904005)
12-20-2022 6:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1336 by Dredge
12-19-2022 1:30 AM


Humans, Cows, Pigs and UCD
Dredge writes:
Please cite a scientific paper that says the use of cow and pig insulin for humans would not have been possible without the theory of UCD.
Of course, even if it were possible, the real question is this:
Is it useful?
And now that I myself am engaging in these conversations, it is high time that I understood what UCD actually is. |
Google was far from helpful.
  • User-centered design (UCD)
  • UCD, Ultra Constant Discharge (lighting) ; UCD, Urine Collection Device ; UCD, Universal Call Distribution ; UCD, United Companion Dog (UKC obedience title).
    *sighs*
    UCD — University of California, Davis. UCD — Urine Collection Device. UCD — Uniform Call Distributor. UCD — Usual Childhood Diseases.
    Maybe if I just look back at the prior posts I can find the correct answer.
    In the back of my mind, UCD had something to do with common descent, which is a no-brainer. My question to Dredge is how does a scientist proceed without this useful fact?

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 1336 by Dredge, posted 12-19-2022 1:30 AM Dredge has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 1362 by Dredge, posted 12-20-2022 11:05 AM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 1359 of 1429 (904006)
    12-20-2022 6:57 AM
    Reply to: Message 1332 by Dredge
    12-18-2022 1:42 PM


    Re: UCD evidence
    Dredge writes:
    (reference) "trolling is a fishing technique that employs dragging a hooked lure or bait through the water from a moving boat."
    Trolling: The Ultimate Fishing Technique (Updated 2022)
    To be fair, however, you need to look at all of the definitions given by Mr.Dictionary, Ms. Wiki, and other esteemed drones.
    Im trying to find the post you sent to me that remained unanswered. Something about John Paul II. (J2P2?)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1332 by Dredge, posted 12-18-2022 1:42 PM Dredge has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 1387 of 1429 (904121)
    12-22-2022 8:31 AM
    Reply to: Message 1386 by Dredge
    12-22-2022 8:10 AM


    Re: On A Similar Note...
    To clarify, I am attempting to defend mainstream medical thought, method and theory without being labled a Darwinoid! After all, even Pope Francis defended the legitimacy of biological evolution, IIRC. I would have to look it up. BTW what do you think of Francis?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1386 by Dredge, posted 12-22-2022 8:10 AM Dredge has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 1389 by Dredge, posted 12-22-2022 8:58 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 1400 of 1429 (904847)
    01-09-2023 8:10 AM
    Reply to: Message 1389 by Dredge
    12-22-2022 8:58 AM


    Re: On A Similar Note...
    Dredge writes:
    The Pope's opinion on evolution means nothing to me. He's merely parroting the consensus of the Darwinist cult that rules the scientific community ... which also means nothing to me.
    Some say that the Roman Catholic Church itself is a giant and ongoing cult. Our old member, Faith, used to attack them.
    Perhaps you could clarify how this "cult of Darwinoids" hijacked science. Next, you could explain how the entire RCC selection process for a new Pope got hijacked by the evil one. After all, Jesus even said to Peter that the gates of hell would never prevail against His church.
    It might help me if you shared some of the literature and source of thinking that you espouse.

    The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
    When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
    Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
    We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1389 by Dredge, posted 12-22-2022 8:58 AM Dredge has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 1402 by ringo, posted 01-09-2023 11:10 AM Phat has not replied
     Message 1405 by Dredge, posted 01-23-2023 12:08 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 1408 of 1429 (905362)
    01-24-2023 3:34 PM
    Reply to: Message 1405 by Dredge
    01-23-2023 12:08 PM


    Re: On A Similar Note...
    Why would that help you?
    Because you claim that the primary source of your "authoritative" argument comes from your covering through Gods True Church. Thus, im wondering if your sources originated through the church or if you simply favor Ken Ham and the ID proponents withot giving much of a thought about their source of information/wisdom.

    "Take me to your liter."

    The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
    When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
    Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
    We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1405 by Dredge, posted 01-23-2023 12:08 PM Dredge has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 1410 by Dredge, posted 02-04-2023 2:56 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 1415 of 1429 (905894)
    02-05-2023 12:49 AM
    Reply to: Message 1414 by Dredge
    02-05-2023 12:35 AM


    Re: On A Similar Note...
    This is Ken Hams apologetic showcase..
    And don't bullshit us that you have never heard of him. Any good Catholic would support the official position of their church that evolution did in fact happen. You have waundered from the true faith and embraced Protestant YEC, I fear.

    The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
    When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
    Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
    We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1414 by Dredge, posted 02-05-2023 12:35 AM Dredge has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 1417 of 1429 (905900)
    02-05-2023 9:59 AM
    Reply to: Message 1413 by Dredge
    02-04-2023 11:46 PM


    Re: On A Similar Note...
    Dredge writes:
    Interesting. I grew up in Queensland and lived there for 50 years ... the only Ham I heard of was the kind one finds at the supermarket. Perhaps Ken Ham is a creationist pig farmer ...
    Perhaps you've heard of Henry Morris then?

    The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
    When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
    Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
    We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1413 by Dredge, posted 02-04-2023 11:46 PM Dredge has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 1428 of 1429 (906105)
    02-07-2023 10:32 AM
    Reply to: Message 1427 by ringo
    02-06-2023 10:54 AM


    Re: On A Similar Note...
    Well, I can prove that Santa Claus evolved from my common ancestors.
    They saw him like this:
    Nowadays he is evolving as we speak.

    The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
    When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
    Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
    We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1427 by ringo, posted 02-06-2023 10:54 AM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 1429 by ringo, posted 02-07-2023 11:21 AM Phat has not replied

      
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