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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2195
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1396 of 1408 (904775)
01-07-2023 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1391 by ringo
12-22-2022 10:55 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
In other words, you can't answer my question:
Why do you need to believe that all life shares a common ancestor to examine and compare the DNA of humans and other animals?
ringoat writes:
I'm pretty sure I did answer that question the first time you asked it, quite a long time ago.
I'm pretty sure you didn't answer that question ... all you did was make an assertion (re the use of cow and pig insulin in humans) ... no explanation was provided.
It isn't a question of "need".
The common ancestor is a fact. Nested hierarchies based on gross anatomy indicated common descent very long ago - and that fact was confirmed more recently by DNA.
We don't "need" it to be a fact but it is. We can't really do anything in biology without acknowleging the fact .
Here you go again ... making an assertion with no explanation in sight.
Explain why "We can't really do anything in biology without acknowleging the fact" of UCD.
Explain why cow and pig insulin would not have been used in humans without the "fact" of UCD.
- the evidence for that is the fact that deniers, like creationists, don't do anything in biology.
Hilarious. Many biologists are creationists.
What you mean is, no creationists are evolutionary biologists, who are the bullshit-artists, con-men and charlatans of the scientific community.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1391 by ringo, posted 12-22-2022 10:55 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1398 by ringo, posted 01-07-2023 11:17 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2195
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1397 of 1408 (904776)
01-07-2023 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1392 by ringo
12-22-2022 11:01 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
which improvement in the treatment of which disease has the "fact" of UCD provided? And explain how.
ringoat writes:
Cow and pig insulin improved the treatment of diabetes.
True, but as usual, you didn't answer my question.
We only thought of it because cows and pigs are related to us - i.e. we share a common ancestor with cows and pigs.
What a pity you can't cite even one scientific paper that says "We only thought of it because ... we share a common ancestor with cows and pigs."
Sadly, your baseless assertions are typical of the deceitful bullshit habitually excreted by Darwinoids.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1392 by ringo, posted 12-22-2022 11:01 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1399 by ringo, posted 01-07-2023 11:22 AM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20796
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 1398 of 1408 (904782)
01-07-2023 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1396 by Dredge
01-07-2023 8:35 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
... all you did was make an assertion (re the use of cow and pig insulin in humans) ... no explanation was provided.
YOU are the one who claims that nothing useful has ever come from the understanding of common descent. The use of cow and pig insulin is obviously useful and it is obviously based on the understanding of common descent. YOU are the one who needs to explain your claim that the obvious is not true. You have not said ONE WORD about what is wrong with the obvious explanation. All you have ever said was, "Nuh uh." Put up or shut up.
Dredge writes:
Explain why "We can't really do anything in biology without acknowleging the fact" of UCD.
You don't even understand that because we are related to cows and pigs, we have a common ancestor. Being related MEANS we have a common ancestor. You're agreeing with common descent in one sentence and disagreeing with it in the next sentence. You're contradicting yourself.
How can anybody explain anything to an idiot like you?
Dredge writes:
Explain why cow and pig insulin would not have been used in humans without the "fact" of UCD.
YOU explain why no creationist, no common-descent denier, has ever produced a useful idea about biology.
Dredge writes:
Many biologists are creationists.
Name twelve.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1396 by Dredge, posted 01-07-2023 8:35 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1403 by Dredge, posted 01-23-2023 11:43 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20796
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 1399 of 1408 (904783)
01-07-2023 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1397 by Dredge
01-07-2023 8:53 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
you didn't answer my question.
I answered. You didn't understand the answer.
Dredge writes:
What a pity you can't cite even one scientific paper that says "We only thought of it because ... we share a common ancestor with cows and pigs."
You won't find a scientific paper that says, "We only thought of it because the earth is round."
Scientific papers don't work that way.
Dredge writes:
Sadly...
You're the only one here who is sad. And of course, you don't understand why you are sad.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1397 by Dredge, posted 01-07-2023 8:53 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17014
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1400 of 1408 (904847)
01-09-2023 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1389 by Dredge
12-22-2022 8:58 AM


Re: On A Similar Note...
Dredge writes:
The Pope's opinion on evolution means nothing to me. He's merely parroting the consensus of the Darwinist cult that rules the scientific community ... which also means nothing to me.
Some say that the Roman Catholic Church itself is a giant and ongoing cult. Our old member, Faith, used to attack them.
Perhaps you could clarify how this "cult of Darwinoids" hijacked science. Next, you could explain how the entire RCC selection process for a new Pope got hijacked by the evil one. After all, Jesus even said to Peter that the gates of hell would never prevail against His church.
It might help me if you shared some of the literature and source of thinking that you espouse.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1389 by Dredge, posted 12-22-2022 8:58 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1402 by ringo, posted 01-09-2023 11:10 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 1405 by Dredge, posted 01-23-2023 12:08 PM Phat has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9287
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 1401 of 1408 (904855)
01-09-2023 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1395 by Dredge
01-07-2023 8:13 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
So says Taq the Darwinoid con-man ... unfortunately for your lies, NONE of the scientists mentioned in the article said anything about our knowledge of toll-like receptors coming from UCD.
quote:
Two and a half years later, the idea of innate immunity in humans and its connections to defense in invertebrates had already taken hold. At least 150 scientists gathered at a National Academy of Sciences colloquium in Irvine, Calif., entitled “Virulence and Defense in Host-Pathogen Interactions: Common Features between Plants and Animals.” At the meeting, 12 researchers specifically discussed their work on toll in flies and “toll-like receptors”—as the mammalian versions are now known—and other aspects of innate immunity. Two dozen other scientists focused on patterns common to the insect and mammalian pathogens.

By March 2001, scientists had found 10 other human toll-like receptors, including toll-like receptor 2, which Shizuo Akira, MD, and colleagues at Osaka University showed responds to a particular sequence found in bacterial DNA but not in mammalian DNA. To get an idea of how fast the field has grown since 1997, a literature search for the term “toll-like receptor” in 2022 brought up more than 56,000 abstracts.

The evolutionary connections also awed researchers, as they eventually found toll-like molecules in worms, mice, even plants. Plant geneticist Santosh Misra, PhD, and colleagues at the University of Victoria in British Columbia genetically engineered antimicrobial peptides into potatoes to get the crops to withstand fungal infection. Protective compounds produced by plants could conceivably work as new classes of antibiotics in people as well.
The History Behind The Discovery of toll-like Receptors < Yale School of Medicine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1395 by Dredge, posted 01-07-2023 8:13 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1406 by Dredge, posted 01-23-2023 12:24 PM Taq has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20796
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1402 of 1408 (904865)
01-09-2023 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1400 by Phat
01-09-2023 8:10 AM


Re: On A Similar Note...
Phat writes:
... you could explain how the entire RCC selection process for a new Pope got hijacked by the evil one.
"They stole the election!"

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1400 by Phat, posted 01-09-2023 8:10 AM Phat has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2195
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1403 of 1408 (905331)
01-23-2023 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1398 by ringo
01-07-2023 11:17 AM


Re: UCD evidence
ringoat writes:
You don't even understand that because we are related to cows and pigs, we have a common ancestor. Being related MEANS we have a common ancestor.
Please cite a scientific paper that states that the use of cow and pig insulin in humans would have been impossible without the theory of UCD.
YOU explain why no creationist, no common-descent denier, has ever produced a useful idea about biology.
Please cite a scientific paper that states that no creationist or no common-descent denier has ever produced a useful idea about biology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1398 by ringo, posted 01-07-2023 11:17 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1404 by ringo, posted 01-23-2023 11:54 AM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20796
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 1404 of 1408 (905334)
01-23-2023 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1403 by Dredge
01-23-2023 11:43 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
Please cite a scientific paper that states that the use of cow and pig insulin in humans would have been impossible without the theory of UCD.
I already answered that. We wouldn't expect to find any papers that say we couldn't have gotten to the moon without the theory of gravity. It's a silly demand.
Dredge writes:
Please cite a scientific paper that states that no creationist or no common-descent denier has ever produced a useful idea about biology.
Likewise, we wouldn't expect to find any papers saying that the earth is not flat. It's a silly demand.
The onus is on you to cite any scientific paper in which any creationist or any science-denier has ever produced any useful idea about biology.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1403 by Dredge, posted 01-23-2023 11:43 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2195
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1405 of 1408 (905336)
01-23-2023 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1400 by Phat
01-09-2023 8:10 AM


Re: On A Similar Note...
Phat writes:
Some say that the Roman Catholic Church itself is a giant and ongoing cult.
The enemies of God's one, true Church don't know what they're talking about.
Our old member, Faith, used to attack them.
It's sad to see deceived people attacking God's Church. They know not what they do.
Saul of Tarsus thought he was doing God's will by attacking the Church.
Perhaps you could clarify how this "cult of Darwinoids" hijacked science.
"Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him." 
Next, you could explain how the entire RCC selection process for a new Pope got hijacked by the evil one. After all, Jesus even said to Peter that the gates of hell would never prevail against His church.
A Pope parroting a story about evolution doesn't mean the gates of hell have prevailed against the Catholic Church.
If a Pope said the moon is made of cheese, it doesn't mean the gates of hell have prevailed against the Catholic Church.
It might help me if you shared some of the literature and source of thinking that you espouse.
Why would that help you?
"Take me to your leader."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1400 by Phat, posted 01-09-2023 8:10 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1408 by Phat, posted 01-24-2023 3:34 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2195
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1406 of 1408 (905338)
01-23-2023 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1401 by Taq
01-09-2023 10:41 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Nice try, con-man, but no cigar. The comments you highlighted in your quote were made by the author of the article, NOT by any of the scientists involved in the work on toll-like receptors described in the article.
NONE of the scientists mentioned in the article said anything about UCD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1401 by Taq, posted 01-09-2023 10:41 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1407 by Taq, posted 01-23-2023 1:23 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9287
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 1407 of 1408 (905341)
01-23-2023 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1406 by Dredge
01-23-2023 12:24 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
Nice try, con-man, but no cigar. The comments you highlighted in your quote were made by the author of the article, NOT by any of the scientists involved in the work on toll-like receptors described in the article.
Toll-like receptors were first discovered in fruit flies, and through common descent they were discovered in other species, including humans. Our knowledge of toll-like receptors are vital for understanding immunology, including our knowledge of how vaccines work.
Show me a single thing in the paragraph above that is not true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1406 by Dredge, posted 01-23-2023 12:24 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17014
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1408 of 1408 (905362)
01-24-2023 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1405 by Dredge
01-23-2023 12:08 PM


Re: On A Similar Note...
Why would that help you?
Because you claim that the primary source of your "authoritative" argument comes from your covering through Gods True Church. Thus, im wondering if your sources originated through the church or if you simply favor Ken Ham and the ID proponents withot giving much of a thought about their source of information/wisdom.

"Take me to your liter."

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1405 by Dredge, posted 01-23-2023 12:08 PM Dredge has not replied

  
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