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Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
You still haven't answered my question I notice.
How do you expect me to answer your question when you decided beforehand that it was a rhetorical question designed to have no rational answer EXCEPT your conclusion that Evidence has eliminated God as a reasonable answer.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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I think the majority of us are waiting for answers from Phat. He has taken many threads off-topic and never addresses criticisms or questions.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Evidence is fact. Facts are evidence. Lack of evidence is lack of fact. There can not be fact without evidence. Why do you keep stating this "lack of evidence" argument as if it thus becomes a fact? Why would you even ask that question?
Phat writes:
The argument there was about the meaning of "knowledge". I said that we don't "know" for sure, just because we don't have any facts.
You once argued that we havent looked everywhere yet. Phat writes:
Re-examine your own inner space. i have thought much more about it than you have.
Perhaps you should reexamine your inner space... Phat writes:
Reality is reality whether you like it or not. ... rather than proclaiming your conclusions as the reality in everyone elses outer space.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Theo writes: Lets be more precise. You all are waiting for me to put my foot in my mouth and confirm YOUR answer(that there really *is* no GOD) or try and "make shit up" in order to dance around your foregone conclusions. You have a lot of quick conclusions yourself. One example is your quick branding of Douglas Murray as a racist. I presented a video response that had him honestly and thoughtfully responding to a philosophical debate with two other noted scholars: Does God Exist? A Conversation with Tom Holland, Stephen Meyer, and Douglas Murray I think the majority of us are waiting for answers from Phat. This is one of the better debate/discussions I have watched. I highly recommend this debate. You, however, are so set in your ways that you are even less likely to even watch a conservative source ( Hoover Institution) than would I be to watch some world view that you would defend. You and I likely will never agree. You vilify me by calling me out for every "sin" I've ever committed against you personally or your character but what you really fear is that I myself am waking up and am well able to defend conservative arguments against your world view,.( which you think is the best way and indeed the ONLY way.)
...He has taken many threads off-topic and never addresses criticisms or questions. Pot meet Kettle. I know for a fact that you will never watch the video debate since in your elitist attitude you claim that
For any of the rest of you with an open mind, check the debate(from a conservative thinktank) out.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo:How can you even say such a thing with a straight face?! I do more thinking on the pot than you do all day at the library! I think more because I am trying to come to some conclusions. You have already concluded that you are right and fall back on preconceived conclusions rather than further investigation. The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You already have an infantry division in your mouth.
You all are waiting for me to put my foot in my mouth.... Phat writes:
It doesn't take long to spot a racist. The guys in the white robes and pointy hats are racists.
One example is your quick branding of Douglas Murray as a racist. Phat writes:
How does that make him not a racist?
I presented a video response that had him honestly and thoughtfully responding to a philosophical debate with two other noted scholars Phat writes:
So that's your logic? If there's ONE place where he doesn't display racism he's not a racist? There were several places where Charles Manson didn't commit murder, so he was not a murderer?
Cop-out! He shows no racist tendencies in his debate with Tom Holland and Stephen Meyer. Phat writes:
I'll watch your videos when you start responding to my rebuttals. For any of the rest of you with an open mind, check the debate(from a conservative thinktank) out.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Phat writes: How do you expect me to answer your question when you decided beforehand that it was a rhetorical question designed to have no rational answer EXCEPT your conclusion that Evidence has eliminated God as a reasonable answer. I expect you to be able to defend something you believe. I'd accept the answer that it's a problem that you can't resolve but your faith requires you to believe it anyway. That would be honest and show that you've at least thought about it and recognised the logical paradox involved. It's not a rhetorical question, it's a serious philosophical problem and there are other possible conclusions than god does not exist. But even if my mind is made up, I want to hear your argument. If you have one.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
How can you deny it with any shape of face?
ringo writes:
How can you even say such a thing with a straight face?! i have thought much more about it than you have. Phat writes:
Clearly not. Your posts don't demonstrate much thought at all.
I do more thinking on the pot than you do all day at the library! Phat writes:
You're trying to swallow the conclusions that those right-wing fanatics are trying to shove down your throat. But you can't because your mouth is too full of feet.
I think more because I am trying to come to some conclusions. Phat writes:
That's a stupid thing to say. There are lots of people who agree with my conclusions. Lots of people have drawn the same conclusions independently. We are the ones who investigate thoroughly. You have already concluded that you are right and fall back on preconceived conclusions rather than further investigation. Your conclusions aren't even self-consistent. You contradict yourself constantly. You refuse to investigate anything but sources that confirm your biases. You refuse to discuss anything. When you start discussing the rebuttals of your nonsense, you can criticize other people's conclusions.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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candle2 writes: Taq, a so-called theistic evolutionists is no more aChristian than a liberal man who puts on a dress and lipstick is a woman. Right. And a True Scotsman doesn't put sugar in his porridge.
God leaves nothing to chance; only humans do this. Perhaps you should read up on the difference between ontological randomness and statistical randomness. The theory of evolution, and all of science, uses statistical randomness. That is, something is considered random if it fits a statistical model of randomness. However, no one makes claims about the supernatural that could perhaps control the process in a way that is indistinguishable from randomness. If you have a problem with evolution for being random, then you will need to reject the bulk of science. For example, thermodynamics is based on randomness. Do you reject thermodynamics?
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candle2 Member Posts: 850 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
Tangle, tell me how it is possible to create an
environment without pain and suffering when the inhabitants are flesh and blood humans. Humans have needs. We have emotions; often strongemotions. Humans get sick. We feel pain. We feel jealousy. Those who join the God family will be Spirit Beings.We will not have physical needs. Our character of outgoing love for each other will bepermanent. Now you tell me how it is possible for human beingsTo live in absolute joy without anything bad ever happening to them. God owes us nothing. However, He is offering each ofus the opportunity to become a member of the God family. But, He knows the best way to do this. Pain and suffering are not enjoyable but they do helpus to grow and realize how much we need for Christ to return to earth and set up His Kingdom. He gave us a taste of what His Kingdom will be likewhen healed the sick and fed the poor. You still need to tell us exactly how mortal humans canlive without experiencing any pain and suffering. If you were all powerful, how would you accomplish this?
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
candle writes: Tangle, tell me how it is possible to create anenvironment without pain and suffering when the inhabitants are flesh and blood humans. There are several answers to that question, here's three 1. God is all powerful, are you saying that he's not?2. God has created at least two places for humans that are free of suffering, the Garden of Eden and heaven, so where's the difficulty? 3. There is no reason why we need to be flesh and blood; a soul is enough for both heaven and hell is it not? Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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It is not surprising as a racist yourself, you can not see the racism of Murray. The pieces from his book that you think show how wonderful he is, ooze with racism.
Just because Alex Jones does not lie about Sand Hook every time he speaks does not make him not guilty about lying about Sandy Hook. The video you have such a hardon for is irrelevant to anything I have said or posted about Murray. WE don't debate by video, around here (says whom?)
Says the forum rules. Another reason you were such a shitty moderator. You didn't even know or follow the forum rules.https://www.evcforum.net/PresentHTML.php?control=webpagep... Here you go maybe you should read them. If you then still don't understand, reach out I am sure someone may be willing to explain them to you. Theo writes:
He has taken many threads off-topic and never addresses criticisms or questions.Phat writes:
Again he doesn't address this. All he does is resort to attacking me and "but look at you" CricketsThe only thing worse than a troll is a willfully ignorant troll. Murray is a racist, misogynist hack.The Madness of Crowds by Douglas Murray review – a rightwing diatribe | Society books | The Guardian Why Douglas Murray’s “Strange Death of Europe” Is a Far-Right Hit — And Wrong What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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candle2 writes:
Just to be clear, will you give us a list of all the things your "all-powerful" God can NOT do? You still need to tell us exactly how mortal humans canlive without experiencing any pain and suffering. If you were all powerful, how would you accomplish this? Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
candle2 writes: Those who join the God family will be Spirit Beings.We will not have physical needs. Our character of outgoing love for each other will be permanent. Then why not start that way?
Now you tell me how it is possible for human beings To live in absolute joy without anything bad ever happening to them. Isn't that what heaven is?
Pain and suffering are not enjoyable but they do help us to grow and realize how much we need for Christ to return to earth and set up His Kingdom. What does there even have to be an Earth? Why not put the souls directly into heaven?
You still need to tell us exactly how mortal humans can live without experiencing any pain and suffering. If you were all powerful, how would you accomplish this? Create heaven and put people in heaven.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1
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candle2 writes: Those who join the God family will be Spirit Beings.We will not have physical needs. Actually that isn't Biblical. That belief came from Plato. This happened when the early Christian church allowed itself to be influenced by the Greco-Roman thing after Constantine.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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