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Member (Idle past 5928 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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candle writes: Tangle, you ask why would a living God make His creationsuffer if He had an alternative. The truth is that God wants us to experience this. Then he is evil.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
candle writes: Tangle, evil would be to create humans as mindlessrobots that have no emotions or self determination. I'll ask you the same question I asked Phat who has so far been unable to answer me. If god is able to create a place where evil and suffering doesn't exist and freewill doesn't seem to be a stumbling block ie heaven, why has he made evil and suffering here? Please don't reply with dogma, I won't read it.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Phat writes:
With reason - rational thinking
What other way can one reply Its easy to play the role of a rational human grappling with finding logic and reason in their faith. Rather, it's easy to show how silly this Christian fantasy is.
Ive found peace in my search.
If you say so, but it doesn't look that way to me.
You have not.
Really? How do you work that out?
It is likely why I am a believer and you left the faith. The only difference is that you, ringo, and Theodoric lay the blame on God (or more precisely His followers.) I don't. ffs Phat how many times? If we don't believe in a god, how can we blame him for anything?
To be fair, I don't blame socialists, humanists, or unbelievers either. In fact, I'd have to really think about where the blame lies. Blame for what? The human condition? Life the universe and everything? You still haven't answered my question I notice.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Phat writes: How do you expect me to answer your question when you decided beforehand that it was a rhetorical question designed to have no rational answer EXCEPT your conclusion that Evidence has eliminated God as a reasonable answer. I expect you to be able to defend something you believe. I'd accept the answer that it's a problem that you can't resolve but your faith requires you to believe it anyway. That would be honest and show that you've at least thought about it and recognised the logical paradox involved. It's not a rhetorical question, it's a serious philosophical problem and there are other possible conclusions than god does not exist. But even if my mind is made up, I want to hear your argument. If you have one.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
candle writes: Tangle, tell me how it is possible to create anenvironment without pain and suffering when the inhabitants are flesh and blood humans. There are several answers to that question, here's three 1. God is all powerful, are you saying that he's not?2. God has created at least two places for humans that are free of suffering, the Garden of Eden and heaven, so where's the difficulty? 3. There is no reason why we need to be flesh and blood; a soul is enough for both heaven and hell is it not? Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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I wish you two could hear yourselves.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Faith writes: im sure you reacted in horror when I decided to take a free online philosophy course. Most Christians that I know wouldn't do it. Granted I wont be throwing my beliefs away anytime soon. Well this is interesting. You think that thinking is dangerous? Christians are frightened of thinking? They think that if you can think properly - and by properly I mean rationally logically, and in a straight line - you'll lose your faith? What a crock of shit that is.Surely a faith can stand up comfortably to reason? If not, is it just for the ignorant, uneducated, gullible and mindless? Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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candle writes: Tangle, it isn't thinking that concerns Christians.Thinking is a good thing. I took two philosophy classes at Murray State. And, the circles and diagrams can be very beneficial for teaching attorneys to make one think they said one thing while meaning the opposite. God tell His followers to prove everything. So you just go ahead and keep thinking. Well that's all very reassuring candle, so can you now answer the logic question I asked you a few pages ago?
quote: Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
candle writes: Tangle, I did answer it. [Message=1076] candle2 has not repliedJe suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
candle2 writes: You agree that God is all powerful. In fact God is omnipotent. He is omnipresent. He is omniscient. So he's all powerful but not powerful enough to make a place where suffering does not exist? Edited by Tangle, . Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
I'll be there Friday, warm up the bbq.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
I'm jealous...
... but I'm off to Argentina next week after sea trout so I can live with it for a whileJe suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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"do be, do be, do" Sinatra
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Phat writes: Tangle even claims that Christianity is dying a slow yet steady death globally...though the jury is out on that one. It's not a claim, it's a fact and the jury came in on it years ago. The decline of Christianity in the Western world is the decreasing Christian affiliation in the Western world. While most countries in the Western world were historically almost exclusively Christian, the post-World War II era has seen developed countries with modern, secular educational facilities shifting towards post-Christian, secular, globalized, multicultural and multifaith societies. While Christianity is currently the predominant religion in Latin America,[1] Europe,[2] Canada[3][4] and the United States,[5] the religion is declining in many of these areas, including Western Europe,[6][7] North America,[8] and Oceania. A decline in Christianity among countries in Latin America's Southern Cone has also contributed to a rise in irreligion in Latin America.[9] Pew Research Center (PEW) has found a retention rate among Western European Christians closer to 83% (ranging from 57% in the Netherlands to 91% in Austria),[2] however, the overwhelming majority of those who have left Christianity in Western Europe now identify as religiously unaffiliated.[2] More recent study published in 2022 by Pew Research Center, have found a retention rate among American Christians closer to 67%, and cited that the decline of Christianity is primarily due to people leaving Christianity and choosing to have no religious affiliation (rather than due to people converting to other religions).[10] Pew Research Center projects that Christians will make up less than half of the American population by 2070, with estimated ranges for that year falling between 35% and 46% of the American population (down from 64% in 2022 and from 91% in 1976).[10] Decline of Christianity in the Western world - WikipediaJe suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Dredge writes: The gates of hell will not prevail against the Church (Matt 16:28). In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. (Tolkein. Ch.1)Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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