Summations Only

Tangle, you ask why would a living God make His creation
suffer if He had an alternative.This is a fair question, and one that I used to ask myself.The truth is that God wants us to experience this.Adam and Eve had no life experiences with which to assist
them when confronted with Satan and his powers of
deception.There are two ways of life. One is the way of "get." Satan is
the father of this way.The other (God's way) is the way of "give."The way of "get" is exemplified by extreme self-centeredness.
It involves greed; competition; and get ahead at all cost.Characteristics of "get" involve jealousy, pride, lack of empathy,
and the belief that rules don't apply to them.God's way of "give" is centered on outgoing love and genuine
concern for others. It involves co-ooeration and sharing credit
with all.The fruits of "give" is gentleness; joy; goodness; love;
meekness; and, faith.Satan was placed on the earth with many angels under him.
Their responsibility was to put the finishing touches to the
created earth.Satan and his minion rebelled against God. The results was a
destroyed earth, as well as much of the solar system. Who
knows what portions of the galaxy and universe were
affected.When God places someone in a position of power they remain
in that position until a replacement is found.Adam was to replace Satan, but he failed to qualify.God was aware that Adam would fail long before it
came to fruition.This is why Christ clearly understood long before the
foundation of the earth that He would die for our sins.What humans experience under the rule of Satan and his
way of get is pain, misery and death.It can be extremely painful at times to be a human living
in a world governed by "get."But, it gives us what Adam and Eve didn't have when
confronted by Satan. And, that is the knowledge of the
heartache caused by this way of life.Look at all the wars that have bee the result of (not God)
sin.Matthew tells us that a time is coming that we would
completely destroy all life on earth if Christ did not
come back and intervene.We will know beyond any doubt the results of living
under Satan and his way of "get."The vast majority of Christians believe that the second
resurrection is when sinners will be sentenced to hell.But, this is far from the truth. The second resurrection is
a resurrection to correction.The books of life are opened. This is the same as opening
the tree of life, or the water of life for all humans who have
ever lived, with the exception of those in the first resurrection.There are some who devoted their lives to Satan and his cause
for wealth, power, and fame who will be in the third resurrection
when they will be sentenced to eternal death.Also, some are so evil and despicable that they will also be
In the third resurrection.In any event, those in the second resurrection (who are
raised as flesh and blood human) will be told that Christ
hàs paid their death penalty. What they do from that
point forward determined their eternity.Christ will give each of us an opportunity to live life the
way he intends for us.He will not have to say take my word for it that my way
is far better; we will have our former life to compare it
with.Those who allow God's Holy Spirit to change them will
Be turned to living Sons of God. Part of the God family.Those who do not change will then be destroyed for all
of eternity. Since they were resurrected as flesh and
blood they will be consumed.There is much, much more than this. This is simply a
condensed version.

You seem to be suggesting that being filled with "God's Holy Spirit" turns people into mindless robotic zombies.Here's the real point. You are trying to argue that what they said shows that Adam and Eve were real people. It doesn't. People often talk about fictional characters without mentioning that they are fictional. Such talk is not evidence that Adam and Eve were real people. It is only evidence that their story was well known.There are many Christians, not just TEs, who take the early part of Genesis to be allegorical. That's a well respected view within Christianity.
​

Nwr, you know that this isn't what i am suggesting.
It is the Spirit of a sound mind.It gives us strength to exert self-control over our
lives.The Holy Spirit has enabled me to overcome many
faults and weaknesses during my life. I still have to
guard against my desires.The Holy Spirit contains the very minds of Jesus and
the Father.A person who has never had the Holy Spirit dwell in
them is not one who should be offering suggestions
about It.If you do not want to believe that Adam and Eve were
real people, then don't.The Holy Bible, as well as Jesus, says they were
real.And, I believe it completely.And, as I said before, the number of people who
believe a certain way has nothing to do with
whether something is true or not.

Then he is evil.

False. That's an interpretation that you are reading into it.

Tangle, evil would be to create humans as mindless
robots that have no emotions or self determination.We humans, under the influence of Satan, cause each
other pain and suffering.God would rather us not smoke but He won't prevent
our hand from into our shit pocket for a cigarette.Not bearing false witness does not cause evil to happen.Not stealing doesn't cause evil things to happen.Not committing adultery/fornication doesn't cause
unwanted pregnancies or divorces.To love thy neighbor as thyself does not cause wars or
violence against each other.Pain and suffering is not the result of following God's
laws but are the results of not following His laws.The same still holds true though. In order for us to
decide which way of life we prefer we must experience
both.God knows this.A few decades of pain and suffering doesn't compare to
an eternity of true happiness and joy.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Phat who has so far been unable to answer me.If god is able to create a place where evil and suffering doesn't exist and freewill doesn't seem to be a stumbling block ie heaven, why has he made evil and suffering here?Please don't reply with dogma, I won't read it.

Explain that to a baby in Africa, who loses their sight as a result of Onchocerciasis .In what way did that baby fail to follow your god's supposed laws, so as to result in a lifetime of lost sight and pain ?

What other way can one reply when God can be discussed no other way with you? Its easy to play the role of a rational human grappling with finding logic and reason in their faith. Ive found peace in my search. You have not. It is likely why I am a believer and you left the faith. The only difference is that you, ringo, and Theodoric lay the blame on God (or more precisely His followers.) I don't.
To be fair, I don't blame socialists, humanists, or unbelievers either. In fact, I'd have to really think about where the blame lies.

​ You have a valid point. Upon examining it, I would ask myself (and humanity in general) if we should take the blame for this babys agony.
You can blame God, and you can extrapolate that blame to Gods unobedient followers, but if so, I would add all of the unbelievers in that guilt paradigm as well. The fact is that one member of the human race is suffering. The question is whether or not the human race is responsible. The dilemma is what to do about it. Where are we falling short?

And that applies to you too. Holy Spirit or no Holy Spirit, nothing you believe and nothing you have said has anything to do with whether or not Adam and Eve were real.

Your definition of evil is wrong.

Nonsense. Don't attribute characteristics to me that I have told you many times are false. Maybe God "would" be blamed IF he was real - but he isn't.

Why do you keep stating this "lack of evidence" argument as if it thus becomes a fact? You once argued that we havent looked everywhere yet. Perhaps you should reexamine your inner space rather than proclaiming your conclusions as the reality in everyone elses outer space.

With reason - rational thinking Rather, it's easy to show how silly this Christian fantasy is. If you say so, but it doesn't look that way to me. Really? How do you work that out?ffs Phat how many times? If we don't believe in a god, how can we blame him for anything? Blame for what? The human condition? Life the universe and everything?You still haven't answered my question I notice.