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Member (Idle past 5908 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes:
In this context, evolution simply means human improvements throughout time. Nonsense.
You guys have gone so far as to throw God away. Also nonsense Age of Enlightenment More nonsense
My idea of "enlightenment, however, is that moment when one senses a connection emotionally with the Creator of all seen and unseen. As my blood sugars are dropping, i find myself able to write and express myself as I used to do. Yeh, well that's not necessarily a good thing. To me, the idea of a Trinity in no way implies polytheism. As no one has ever made any kind of sense of the Trinity who cares? Christianity is and was expressed through Christ. GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen (and the God of infinite multiverses, should they exist) is simply "the Father" to Jesus. The Holy Spirit is the comforter...the eternal presence (and awareness of this presence) When He was said to proclaim that "I and My Father are One, He was implying that as a human, He fully understood and personified God's character. Of course, other religions may disagree, but among diversity, there can be unity. CantJe suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: And you wonder why Division exists in religion and in politics! I guess you didn't know that "cant" means 'sanctimonious talk of a religious nature' Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: Because he attempts to discredit the whole belief of Christianity. You mean like Darwin did?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Is there freedom in heaven Phat?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes:
So why is it not possible here? Yes, I believe so.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: I was unaware that nobody has freedom *here*. What I asked you was "Is there freedom in heaven Phat?" ie freedom to do evil in heaven. Is there? Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: First off ...etc I think you're avoiding the question. It's a philosophical question Phat. The explanation often given by apologists for the existence of evil here on earth (define it anyway you like, it doesn't matter) is free will. They say that God could not create a place where people could only be good - free will means the ability to chose to do both good and evil. So evil must exist. So I asked you whether people in heaven have free will? Heaven is a place were people live happily ever after so how can evil exist there? if evil doesn't exist there, why can't it not exist here? Apparently god CAN create a place without evil.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: Because we have willfully allowed it. God respects our free will so much that He won't simply take the evil away from us. We allowed it in. We must push it out. Of course, we are also free enough to choose to ask Him to help. He won't do it all, however. All you have said above is that evil exists here because freewill requires it. I asked whether freewill also exists in heaven. If freewill does not exist in heaven and there is no evil, why does evil need to exist here?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Phat writes: Are you seriously asking that question? For the same reason that we can't smoke pot at grandma's house. If god won't allow it, where is freewill?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
I guess you're not able to answer my question about freewill in heaven, to be fair it is a difficult one.
Here's an easier version. Is there disease in heaven? Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: I would think not. So if it is possible for god to create a place where disease does not exist, why hasn't he created a disease free earth?
Heaven lacks the environment of decay and entropy that earth has. And of course I'm not only speculating but making up what I believe about Heaven. There is no data. You don't need to make stuff up, it's a philosophical question, we take it as an accepted premise that heaven does not have disease, famine, natural tragedies etc. If it did it wouldn't be heaven.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Phat writes: Essentially you are asking why God doesn't create Heaven on earth. Trust the process. So can you answer my question?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Phat writes: How? By thinking about it. So the question is if it's possible for god to create a place where suffering is not a necessary part of his creation - which I think you accept? - why has he created suffering? Remember, this is the god of love.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Phat writes: I will again go with what Kreeft says. God created the possibility of evil. Thus also the possibility of suffering. Suffering is inevitable to some degree in the realm we live in. You're not thinking, put your dogma aside and just think. Given that god has created a place that doesn't require suffering, why did god create suffering here?
Some suffering is unavoidable. Given that heaven exists and doesn't have suffering, that statement can not be true can it?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Phat writes: m not sure I agree with your attempt to frame the argument. It's got nothing to do with agreement, it's a philosophical question which begs a response. If god is able to make a place without suffering for his creation, why has he chosen not to? Why do you think he did that Phat? Put aside all your learned apologetics and just think - is there a rational answer?
You want a straight-up challenge(like Job) to Gods plan and purpose by humans who demand to know. If, however, you go with such a hypothetical, you must also include the corollary hypothetical of Gods response. His answer to the humans who demand to know. Can you imagine that? It's not a challenge to god, it's challenge to you. Why would a loving god make his creation suffer if he had an alternative? Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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