Essentially you are asking why God doesn't create Heaven on earth. Trust the process.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
How? That's like asking me why the sky isn't green
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
To be fair, I *did* notice the small g and figured you were only saying that the "god" of the Bible is evil....which is always what critics used to say to conservative leaning Bible thumpers. Tangle seems to think that is true as well...he does not believe a word of the apologetic narrative regarding the stories and parables of the holy scriptures.
You have alluded to the fact about what scares Liberal Progressives and self described educated elitists(of expertise ) and (you) paint conservatives such as Cruz (and evidently myself)as "self radicalized" but do you have any idea (or concern) about what scares me? What scares me is the vision of a one world social democratic order...where religion is publicly outlawed and secular humanist values are required (a mandatory requirement all in the name of protecting the people from religious radicals.) And since you all are so educated, you will push for a one world financial system (advertised as a humane solution to help ALL of the people) and will eventually seek to abolish private property rights (also implemented to back the global government) which is admittedly a long way off at this point. But not that long. I see it happening easily within 25 years.
You may laugh (or cry) at my radicalized ignorance but I am just as scared of your leftist authoritarian arrogance. Your system will fail because (all of) you have attempted to replace God with your lame brains and bleeding secular hearts.[/rant]
Is it ever possible for a two party system to see eye to eye?
Edited by Phat, .
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Theistic evolutionists are the same as evolutionists in God's eyes.
Thats quite a feat...seeing through Gods eyes. Im not 100% sure of what He thinks. For all I know He is either mad at me or crying over my self radicalization! In all seriousness, though...why would God hate "evolutionists"?
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
So the question is if it's possible for god to create a place where suffering is not a necessary part of his creation - which I think you accept? - why has he created suffering?
Apart from the obvious go-to answer that pops up in your head-that He doesnt exist(couldnt exist) I will again go with what Kreeft says. God created the possibility of evil. Thus also the possibility of suffering. Suffering is inevitable to some degree in the realm we live in.
Remember, this is the god of love.
This God also honored our initial freewilled decision(as a species) to exist freely and apart from Him. So why suffer? 1) Some suffering is unavoidable. There are diseases, natural disasters, wars and depressions. If I understand you correctly, you are questioning me (as Gods advocate or press secretary) to explain to you why this must be so.
To build our character in the face of overwhelming adversity. To endure and overcome such adversity is the very example of survival of the fittest. To allow any less would make us weaker as a species. Mind you, I hate it too! I often think I deserve better....but maybe the answer is no.
To freely stand against actualized evil, resisting "it" until "it" leaves this realm some day. In other words, God's choice for getting rid of evil is to have His children(those who accept the call) to fight it, resist it, and thus eliminate it.
Thats the best I can do. And of course, you may argue that we as a species would have to do the same thing even if there were no God and no actualized evil.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Im not sure I agree with your attempt to frame the argument. You want a straight-up challenge(like Job) to Gods plan and purpose by humans who demand to know. If, however, you go with such a hypothetical, you must also include the corollary hypothetical of Gods response. His answer to the humans who demand to know. Can you imagine that?
Warning in advance: If we go down this rabbit trail, we have to also include our interpretation of Gods likely response. Agreed?
Additional food for thought:
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
If god is able to create a place where evil and suffering doesn't exist and freewill doesn't seem to be a stumbling block ie heaven, why has he made evil and suffering here? Please don't reply with dogma, I won't read it.
What other way can one reply when God can be discussed no other way with you? Its easy to play the role of a rational human grappling with finding logic and reason in their faith. Ive found peace in my search. You have not. It is likely why I am a believer and you left the faith. The only difference is that you, ringo, and Theodoric lay the blame on God (or more precisely His followers.) I don't. To be fair, I don't blame socialists, humanists, or unbelievers either. In fact, I'd have to really think about where the blame lies.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Pain and suffering is not the result of following God's laws but are the results of not following His laws.
vimesey writes:
Explain that to a baby in Africa, who loses their sight as a result of Onchocerciasis . In what way did that baby fail to follow your god's supposed laws, so as to result in a lifetime of lost sight and pain ?
You have a valid point. Upon examining it, I would ask myself (and humanity in general) if we should take the blame for this babys agony. You can blame God, and you can extrapolate that blame to Gods unobedient followers, but if so, I would add all of the unbelievers in that guilt paradigm as well. The fact is that one member of the human race is suffering. The question is whether or not the human race is responsible. The dilemma is what to do about it. Where are we falling short?
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Why do you keep stating this "lack of evidence" argument as if it thus becomes a fact? You once argued that we havent looked everywhere yet. Perhaps you should reexamine your inner space rather than proclaiming your conclusions as the reality in everyone elses outer space.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
How do you expect me to answer your question when you decided beforehand that it was a rhetorical question designed to have no rational answer EXCEPT your conclusion that Evidence has eliminated God as a reasonable answer.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
I think the majority of us are waiting for answers from Phat.
Lets be more precise. You all are waiting for me to put my foot in my mouth and confirm YOUR answer(that there really *is* no GOD) or try and "make shit up" in order to dance around your foregone conclusions. You have a lot of quick conclusions yourself. One example is your quick branding of Douglas Murray as a racist. I presented a video response that had him honestly and thoughtfully responding to a philosophical debate with two other noted scholars: Does God Exist? A Conversation with Tom Holland, Stephen Meyer, and Douglas Murray
This is one of the better debate/discussions I have watched. I highly recommend this debate.
You, however, are so set in your ways that you are even less likely to even watch a conservative source ( Hoover Institution) than would I be to watch some world view that you would defend. You and I likely will never agree. You vilify me by calling me out for every "sin" I've ever committed against you personally or your character but what you really fear is that I myself am waking up and am well able to defend conservative arguments against your world view,.( which you think is the best way and indeed the ONLY way.)
...He has taken many threads off-topic and never addresses criticisms or questions.
Pot meet Kettle. I know for a fact that you will never watch the video debate since in your elitist attitude you claim that
WE don't debate by video, around here (says whom?)
Murray is a racist. (Cop-out! He shows no racist tendencies in his debate with Tom Holland and Stephen Meyer.) You just like to whine like a hurt stepchild. Either grow up or crawl back under your rock.
For any of the rest of you with an open mind, check the debate(from a conservative thinktank) out.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
ringo: i have thought much more about it than you have.
How can you even say such a thing with a straight face?! I do more thinking on the pot than you do all day at the library! I think more because I am trying to come to some conclusions. You have already concluded that you are right and fall back on preconceived conclusions rather than further investigation.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
GDR, Plato, as well as many other nations, both ancient and modern, believe that the soul is an immortal entity. The vast majority of Christian churches believe this same concept. The Apostles, as well as God's true church, does not believe this, because it is not Biblical.
Remind us again of which church is Gods "true church".
It wouldnt happen to be The United Church of God which evolved from Herbert W.Armstrongs Worldwide Church of God. Comments?
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
) and (you) paint conservatives such as Cruz (and evidently myself)as "self radicalized" but do you have any idea (or concern) about what scares me?
™ Version 4.2
