Choosing a faith

Uhh ... we already know why disease, natural disasters and evil happens.Nature. Physics. Chemistry. Biology. Lots more. Along with all the good like love and puppies, these are why all the bad happens, too. Well ain't he the lucky one.

Suggest you rethink this. You are confusing evidence and conclusion, fact versus analysis."Christianity arose as a belief in the 1st century" is a conclusion from the preponderance of the evidence (what you erroneously call proof) from the independent writings and physical archeology of the time. This conclusion has such evidentiary support that it can be considered as accurate with high confidence on its own in discussion. For the popular vernacular it can be said to be fact though it is actually conclusion.You can cite with abundant confidence that Christianity arose as a belief in the 1st century. But you can only do so because you already know there is the preponderance of actual real facts (evidence) that can be cited in its support. No. Bad semantics. Bad logic.Evidence = fact = item of demonstrable reality. Proof doesn't enter into the picture. Proof is a specific term in math and is misused like this, often purposely, only by ignorant people. The only things we have are evidence, more evidence and a preponderance of evidence. We have found the preponderance of the evidence is a great indicator for reality and is treated as such.There can be no "individual belief" about the facts, the evidence. If a statement's veracity (validity) is in doubt by the scientific community then it is not fact, it is not evidence and cannot be put forward as such.Your "individual belief" is your personal incredulity and means nothing to the world's reality. Yes, evidence, by definition, is known to be valid or it is not said to be evidence.

Phat, the evidence has been overwhelming. For all of humanity’s history an individual’s religious beliefs were geographically acculturated. We learned them at home. This is a documented historical fact. You can’t ignore it away.“He chose us” is an article of your faith meant to lend superiority to your “us” versus “them” archaic fantasies. At the time, the younger you had no choice in your inculcation. You weren’t even aware that anything other were possible. Yes, indeed. This is overwhelming evidence of emotion’s power to rule over reality in a susceptible mind. And its aftermath is evidence of flawed perceptions and critical thinking errors based on your willingness to accept past fantasies as real.The sensations, the thoughts, the experiences were real. They were felt … in your mind. That initial salvation experience was your mind experiencing a temporary chemical imbalance in the perception and logic circuits maybe brought on by something as usual and non-divine as a thought of some existential dread but this time coupled with a much too spicy burrito.

There. Fixed it for you. You were so close. Yes, it is quite that simple. Non-evidenced conclusions are called emotions. Emotion has proven a drastically faulty foundation for decisions of life and death and equity and justice and ...Stile is right. If you seriously wanted to identify the truth about reality you would follow our best (only) method for identifying that reality. Emotion is not it. Bad representation of what science does in reality. Scientists have expectations (hypotheses) about what data they may find. That hardly rises to the emotionally laden and intellectually deficient concept of speculation. And, no, if you read the scientific papers you will find that what they are trying to do is find the bullet that kills their own hypothesis.That is what scientists do - find ways to show how wrong they are. It isn't done. That is the point. If there is no scientific way of proving a point to be valid then the point isn't valid. It has no effect upon the universe. Any concept dependant on an invalid point will soon be discarded because it starts giving bad answers.No response necessary. I know you're deep into it here and I just wanted to correct your misunderstandings for the peanut gallery.

But the motivation goes deeper than that. You do so to keep on the right side of your god, to ensure he punches your ticket to paradise. Narcissistic.Now, giving the same smile just out of humanist habit is a considerably different display of motivation.

What you call a lack of evidence IS evidence. If some intelligent entity fiddles in this world as you suggest then there would be evidence. We have the physical fact that affecting this universe leaves its mark. We know this. That absence speaks volumes. Right. Typical god of the gaps. No one knows what happened prior. That is an area of our ignorance. Perfect place to hide a non-existent god.

Then the resurrection means nothing. That's not christian. The entire motivation behind christian is to qualify for god's grace in paradise. Without that facade you might as well ditch the catechism and acknowledge being a humanist without the religious overtones.

Percy and I do not disagree. The circumstances of the comparison being made is key. If we're talking other life on other worlds that is qualitatively different from religious speculations. The needs of evidence depend on the subject. How did this god help? Specifics. The devil is in the details. Let's get down into the physics of how this help is given.

It is an area where we have no facts, no evidence of anything in any way. That's what ignorance means. It DOES NOT mean we are unable to look and try to find answers. That is what cosmology is all about. Remember, we're still new at this. We got a lot of study yet to do.Further yet, there is no area of existence in this universe that science cannot look into and analyse. At one time we thought we were unable to know what the sun was or how it worked. We overcame that ignorance. We may yet overcome this one.And in relation to our deep areas of ignorance we can say nothing. No cosmic branes or energy flows. No gods or external intelligence. We can say nothing. Neither can you.

I don't speak biblical. I have no idea what this says or how it relates to the uselessness of the resurrection.

Gautama Buddha:

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We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves.

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OK, so now we get to be Buddhist. I think we should update the speculations on renewal. None of this, "I want to come back as an extant (pick a species)." No, I want to come back as a 4th Generation Cyborg from 1000 years in the future. If one were a believer this might mean something. But it hardly seems to matter given the fantasy. Neither one can accomplish the goal of getting you to the pearly gates when neither the gates nor the realm beyond are real.

There isn't. No. Message 63. That was months ago. Nothing's changed since then. A lack of evidence where there should be some if the conjecture is real is a scientific data point in opposition to your conjecture. A lack of evidence has become a data point in evidence.This is not a difficult concept. How can it be otherwise? I'm confused. I'm talking about your statement in Message 1759 "If someone is led by God to help someone in need, what scientific evidence would that produce?"Led by god? How? Do they get some unacknowledged, unfelt, unreal, majikal message lodged in their brain?"Hey, slip this guy a fiver."Or are you talking about a believer responding to their religious upbringing and taking an opportunity to perform in keeping with their faith?One is god's leading, requiring accompanying physics. The other is normal human acculturation requiring only a priest in a temple.Which one are you talking about?

That is all that there is. No one can show any reality to anything incorporeal. In this universe, so it appears, incorporeal is limited to the human imagination. You say that like it's a bad thing. Yes. That is the job of science; give an answer and get 100 more questions in return. If there is such a thing and it is physically available to us then, yes, of course, we will find it. And if we do then you know we will digest it, use it, weaponize it and turn it against the Ol' Bastard Himself. Payback's a bitch.

Materialism, pshah! Believers! Hear me!Quantum Field-ism.The one and only TRVE god is the wave function! All Hail Probability!

Of course we can. And yes, we just ask them ... again and again in subtle different ways.Motivations are what the science of psychology is all about. Entire buildings and campuses devoted to this one specific science: human motivation.Please try to understand. There is nothing in this universe beyond the scope of science. There is nothing in reality to which a scientific method cannot be devised and brought to bear.

Cute. But reality says otherwise. Ringo is correct.