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Author Topic:   Anti-theist
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 788 of 895 (897752)
09-10-2022 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 782 by Phat
09-10-2022 11:53 AM


Re: Politics and Secular Emotionalism
Phat writes:
I am pro-thinking...
No you're not. You have mocked evidence, rationality and skepticism far too often for anybody to believe that.
Phat writes:
humanists have an emotional need for self-validation.
Everybody has an emotional need for self-validation. The difference is that humanists have to get it from reality instead of from some spook.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 782 by Phat, posted 09-10-2022 11:53 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 789 by AZPaul3, posted 09-11-2022 6:25 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 793 of 895 (897769)
09-11-2022 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 790 by Phat
09-11-2022 8:03 AM


Re: Politics and Secular Emotionalism
Phat writes:
you get all worked up over the Holy Spirit being a Monster yet never mention the other spirits that seduce, lie, and beguile humanity.
No, we mention the apologists all the time.
Phat writes:
perhaps ringo is ultimately right.
I don't care about being "ultimately right". I'd just like to get you to THINK once in a while.
Phat writes:
​I was shaken by the fervor that all of you had in disproving Jesus. ( which you failed to do, by the way.)
There's no need to disprove Jesus, just like there's no need to disprove leprechauns. The default is they don't exist. Again, the "fervor" is to get you to THINK.
Phat writes:
I believe in the whole concept of spiritual war because I had subjective observation of such a realm in my own past and because I even see it now on days when I channel my inner asshole.
You "observe" what you want to observe, what your lying apologists say you should observe. But it's all subjective.
Phat writes:
The difference is that you liberals don't see it, disbelieve it, and don't in fact care.
Because we try to be objective - and objectively it's all bullshit.
And it has nothing to do with being liberal - except that liberals are more likely to THINK. You like the conservatives because they encourage you to be brainless.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 790 by Phat, posted 09-11-2022 8:03 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 795 by Phat, posted 09-11-2022 3:05 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 796 of 895 (897772)
09-11-2022 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 794 by Phat
09-11-2022 2:48 PM


Re: Hatred Of Thinking?
Phat writes:
Raw intelligence requires humans. No robot will ever figure out the meaning of the universe.
Nor will any human. We can assign meaning. We can't "discover" it.
Phat writes:
I'm mocking your idea of Christianity.
The idea of Christianity that I am expressing comes straight from the Bible, straight from Jesus Himself, according to the only evidence of Him that we have. You're mocking the Bible and you're mocking all we know about Jesus.
Phat writes:
You mock me for making Him up, but the book itself was made up.
So you put yourself on an equal footing with the Gospel writers?
Phat writes:
The only standard we should be held to is the integrity of what we make up.
That was the standard that Charles Manson used. I think we're going to use a higher standard.
Phat writes:
You never dared to do it.
ringp writes:
How would you know that?
Your religion that you were brought up in was too strict. That's why you started thinking and wormed your way out of it.
I started thinking because thinking was the right thing to do. It's a good starting point in almost any situation. Why do you mock thinking?
Phat writes:
The reason I know your religious upbringing was too strict is that even now you insist I follow the standard.
Following a standard is not "too strict". It's a minimum requirement.
Phat writes:
You cling to the integrity of the book and claim that I don't.
I KNOW you don't. You deny the book constantly and put your own musings above it.
Phat writes:
So let me get this straight. The book was written by humans of an earlier warring time. They described a God who commanded them to sacrifice animals and kill every one of their enemy. Jesus comes along and claims that the goats refused to do what He said and thus will also be harshly dealt with.
So far you seem to have a grasp of the obvious.
Phat writes:
You thought your way beyond both characteristics of the Triune God.
There is no Triune God.
Phat writes:
The Spirit, which you fondly call the Spook...
"The Spook" refers to every aspect of your magical God, including your made-up version of Jesus.
Phat writes:
... is also dropped in favor of logic, reason, and reality. Am I right so far?
You continue to mock logic, reason and reality. OF COURSE they come before your fantasies.
(A bunch of your quotes are messed up here.)
Phat writes:
It's your standards that are the illogical idea.
ringo writes:
Show how they are illogical.
All I'm trying to show is that the idea of God is not illogical.
No, you said that MY standards are illogical. We were not talking about the idea of God AT ALL.
Try again. Show how something I SAID is illogical.
​

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 794 by Phat, posted 09-11-2022 2:48 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 797 by Phat, posted 09-11-2022 3:23 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 798 of 895 (897774)
09-11-2022 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 795 by Phat
09-11-2022 3:05 PM


Re: Politics and Secular Emotionalism
Phat writes:
in other words...
Never mind putting words in my mouth. Just deal with the words I wrote.
Phat writes:
... you are collectively against the idea of organized religion..
I have no idea where that came from. When have I said anything about organized religion?
(And by the way, I can't "collectively" do anything by myself. Do you just throw in random words?)
Phat writes:
you include the focus on a Creator of all seen and unseen. You are unable to deal with such an idea...
I am quite well able to deal with such a concept. YOU, on the other hand, can't seem to grasp the incongruity of a "creator of all seen and unseen" who DIDN'T create evil.
Phat writes:
... so you throw relativism into the equation....
I will debate relativism up one side and down the other if you just stop running away.
Phat writes:
... and respond "which God" as if to prove a point that everyone makes up God anyway.
I will also debate whether or not your God is made up. Why do you keep running away?
Phat writes:
There you go again with relativism.
Indeed I do. Why don't you discuss it instead of just dismissing it?
Phat writes:
The day I see people worshipping a Leprechaun is the day I explain to you that all other "gods" are imitators.
I don't see people worshipping YOUR made-up God either. Most of the Christians I know would not like the way you trash the Bible.
Phat writes:
Until then, the only leprechaun I ever see is on a cereal box!
Note that your Jesus isn't even on a cereal box. (How many feet can you get in your mouth at once?)
Phat writes:
I observed based on where my experiences led me.
You observed based on what your lying apologists told you.
Phat writes:
If apologists are all liars, so are all mythicists.
Tu quoque (a logical fallacy, roughly equivalent to the schoolyard, "I know you are but what am i?") Your apologists are demonstrably liars. My invitation to discuss that fact is ongoing.
Phat writes:
Quit blaming your problems on conservatives and I might consider easing up on you.
I don't need you to ease up on me. The breeze from your swings-and-misses might muss up my hair a bit but otherwise, your "arguments" are no challenge. Stop running away. I'm getting old. I can't chase you as fast as when I was young.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
You like the conservatives because they encourage you to be brainless.
More likely, we are encouraged to be heartless so that more money can be earned.
So that more money can be stolen by the Trumps and their minions. That IS brainless of you.
Phat writes:
We surrender our brains to God.
You surrender your brains to lies you have been told about God.
quote:
No retreat, baby, no surrender -- Bruce Springsteen
Phat writes:
If He shows up knocking at your door don't worry. He didn't come for your money or your brain
Then He's wasting His time.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 795 by Phat, posted 09-11-2022 3:05 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 799 of 895 (897775)
09-11-2022 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 797 by Phat
09-11-2022 3:23 PM


Re: Hatred Of Thinking?
Phat writes:
The only other thing I can think of is when you compare Jesus with Leprechauns. That is most definitely illogical.
You need to SHOW that it's illogical. FYI, "illogical" doesn't just mean that you don't like it. Show the actual fallacies.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 797 by Phat, posted 09-11-2022 3:23 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 800 by Percy, posted 09-12-2022 9:32 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 801 of 895 (897784)
09-12-2022 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 800 by Percy
09-12-2022 9:32 AM


Re: Hatred Of Thinking?
Percy writes:
I submit that Phat is making just as much sense.
I agree.
But I am talking TO Phat, not FOR Phat. It doesn't really matter if he doesn't understand.

Edited by ringo, : Corrected attribution.


"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 800 by Percy, posted 09-12-2022 9:32 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 820 of 895 (898092)
09-18-2022 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 813 by Phat
09-18-2022 9:49 AM


Re: Hatred Of Thinking?
Phat writes:
AZPaul3 writes:
So, what's the point, Phat?
To get you to talk for one thing.
Are you having trouble getting AZPaul to talk? That doesn't sound plausible to me. All you should have to do is sit back and wait a minute.
Phat writes:
I would submit that you dont know "my god". Neither does ringo.
I have said it before: I know your God better than you do.
Discuss.
Phat writes:
Note that you admit that the hypothetical aliens are superior. What if they have an evolved definition of evil?
Their definition is irrelevant. Their definition is bound to be self-serving, like the mosquito's definition of evil or the parasitic worm's definition of evil. The only definition of evil that matters to us is our self-serving definition.
Phat writes:
What if they claim that by smiting us, they are saving the universe from our eventual attempt at exploration, politics, and spreading our germs and memes through the cosmos?
That what-if doesn't work with an almighty God. He should be able to stop our depredations without smiting us.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 813 by Phat, posted 09-18-2022 9:49 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 821 by Phat, posted 09-19-2022 11:39 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 822 of 895 (898124)
09-19-2022 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 821 by Phat
09-19-2022 11:39 AM


Re: Hatred Of Thinking?
Phat writes:
If God exists, the fact that He doesn't save every baby, sick person, or hurt person causes some people to declare Him evil.
Causes thinking people to conclude that He is evil.
Evil is as evil does - and also as evil doesn't do. If He stands and watches somebody drown when He has the power to pull them out, He is evil.
Phat writes:
... you hint that He is evil also based on Matthew 25.
God said He creates evil in Isaiah 45:7. Matthew 25 just confirms that Jesus endorses sending people to eternal fire.
Phat writes:
You DO realize that death is just another part of life, don't you?
That's totally irrelevant to this discussion.
Phat writes:
God is under no obligation to do anything for ringo or Phat.
He certainly is. If anybody has the power to prevent evil from happening and they just stand by and watch it happen, they are eivil. If He's not part of the solution, He's part of the problem.
Phat writes:
No wonder you stopped believing.
I stopped believing because of arguments like yours.
Phat writes:
You expected God to be nicer. And yet you berate me for making up a nicer version of Jesus.
Well, DUH!
You pretend to believe in a god but you have to make up a sunshine-and-lollipops god that even YOU can swallow. You no more of a believer than I am. You cherry-pick Bible verses when it suits you but you can't stomach the Biblical God either.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 821 by Phat, posted 09-19-2022 11:39 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 827 of 895 (904963)
01-13-2023 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 826 by Phat
01-12-2023 1:59 PM


Re: Mighty Mouse
Phat writes:
... the atheist apologist, Alex O'Conner.
How could there be an atheist apologist? There are no doctrines to apologize for.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 826 by Phat, posted 01-12-2023 1:59 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 830 by Phat, posted 01-13-2023 2:48 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 837 of 895 (905065)
01-16-2023 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 830 by Phat
01-13-2023 2:48 PM


Re: Mighty Mouse
Phat writes:
Phat writes:
How could there be an atheist apologist? There are no doctrines to apologize for.
In this instance, I am using the word as synonymous with "defense of"..
That's what i said. There are no doctrines to defend.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 830 by Phat, posted 01-13-2023 2:48 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 838 of 895 (905066)
01-16-2023 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 832 by Phat
01-13-2023 2:58 PM


Re: Words have meaning
Phat writes:
I like learning new stuff...
How about learning new stuff BEFORE you blather on about it as if you DID know what you were talking about?
Phat writes:
Study of apologetics...
But you refuse to discuss apologetics.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 832 by Phat, posted 01-13-2023 2:58 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 839 by Phat, posted 01-16-2023 12:01 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 840 of 895 (905082)
01-16-2023 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 839 by Phat
01-16-2023 12:01 PM


Re: Words have meaning
Phat writes:
You dismiss all of them as goobers before I can defend the arguments.
How does that prevent you from defending the arguments?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 839 by Phat, posted 01-16-2023 12:01 PM Phat has not replied

  
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