Forum: Darwnist Ideology

Wouldn't want anyone posing emptily, firing off authoritive gibberish without backing it up, would we?In that spirit: Do you have a response yet?[This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 02-20-2004]

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"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

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Abortion and gay marriage aren't clearcut issues.

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.Sure they are. The words you used were "equality" and "freedom of choice". Restricting gay marriage promotes inequality. Outlawing abortion prevents the ability to make a choice. Any moral crap you want to tack on is irrelevant.This isn't rocket science, big guy. Equality and freedom of choice restricted by fundie Christian groups... the major proponents of creationism. And I notice you didn't touch the NEA...

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They are champions of equality and freedom of choice and the wonder of creativity in respect to the evolution versus creation controversy.

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So in other words, where it serves their self-interest, and only where it serves their self-interest. My goodness, what champions of decency.

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"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

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It's not the point that creationists aren't saints.

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Then why did you bring up their supposedly superior qualities?I thought you didn't like comparison, or studying single observations, rather than a broad perspective.

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What would be terryifying if creationists just call it a day and became Darwinist ideologists in stead.

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Especially since they'd have to invent something called "Darwinist Ideology" in order to do so.Another bullshit strawman from the creationist camp... that would chill the blood, all right.

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"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

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Actually Darwinists invent Darwinist ideology, such as Darwin in "Descent of Man", Haeckel, Galton, and more recently Singer, Pinker, Diamond, Dawkins etc.

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Out of curiosity, Sy-baby, do you plan on posting a response at any point that doesn't translate to "nuh-uh"?

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You don't believe it exists because you can't handle giving it a place in your view of evolution vs creation controversy.

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That's right Sy... your pet theory just BLOWS MY MIND. It doesn't fit into my tight little buttoned-down world.So instead, I'll just respond with a rousing "yuh-huh".

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"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

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Whatever... I really can't take anybody who denies the existence of Darwinist ideology seriously.

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Or, in other words, "Nuh-uh, you're wrong."

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The influences of Darwinism on intellectual climate of opinion is subject in every broad history text on Nazism that I know of.

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As is the influence of Christianity, as is the influence of various economic theories, as is the influence of ANYTHING. An idea always influences people, it's what an idea freakin' does.But the way in which people choose to use an idea for their own ends says nothing about the idea itself. It's hard to see why you are unable to get this incredibly simple idea.

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If you don't like the term Darwinist ideology, then what other word would you like to use to describe this phenomenon of Darwinism influencing intellectual climate of opinion, both personally and societally?

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People projecting their own morals onto an idea in order to suit their own ends is not a phenomenon exclusive to Darwinism. Therefore I would simply call shenanigans on you for trying to pass it off that way.

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As before, all this talk of evolutionists about evidence curiously comes to naught when it's evidence evolutionsts don't like.

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I'm sorry, you've been introducing evidence?Okay then, I'm the king of a small European nation. Queen Eliza and I will issue our decrees far and wide.I do so love games of "I say it, and that makes it so."How about we try something different now, Sy? Why don't you put your money where your mouth is. Outline what you think Darwinism is. Then, outline what you think Darwinist Ideology is. Not what it has done, but what the tenets of this ideology are.Then, as long as you can support these overviews with facts, we can avoid you ranting about "Darwinist Ideology" as if it's something that's obvious to everyone, while everyone stares at you cockeyed like the new David Icke. We'll simply know what the Hell you're talking about.

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"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

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It says among other things that Darwinism is highly conducive to ideology, because of obscure and emotive language in it like good, bad, success, selfish, goodness, struggle for existence etc.

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And isn't it messed up how algebra uses such terms as "more than" and "less than", or "variable"?The possibilities for evil application are unlimited! Implying that one number is somehow "more than" or "greater than" another? What exactly makes five so much greater than three, anyway? Damned algebraic ideology!

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it says that Darwinism is prejudically focused on Malthusian scenario's of low resources, omitting scenario's of high resources.

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1) Read this.
2) See the end of this post.

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It says that statistically people who accept Darwinism tend afterwards not to believe in God whole, or deny the existence of God someplace.

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1) So?
2) The actual statistics don't bear this out. The number of theistic evolutionists out there is greater than the number of atheists. (Oops, there I go using obscure, emotive language like "greater than".)

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It says that people come up with eugenic ideas, which are on the face of it indistinguishable from Darwinist scientific writing, because of the use of words such as good and bad in Darwinist science. etc.

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Since I hate repeating myself...

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"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

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selfidentification with hereditary material

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Are you trying to say that identifying with one's heritage is an idea that sprouted out of Darwinism? Because people were going on about pure blood and holy blood and what-not for centuries before Darwin came along.

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awareness of selection as a law / process of nature that determines the fate / success of human society, and personal fate

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How is this an ideology? It sounds more like "observing natural selection in action."If you think natural selection is false, by all means argue against it. But calling it an ideology to watch it happen, and acknowledge that it happens is just silly.

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extreme (Darwinist/scientific) rationalism in making valuejudgements, as opposed to making valuejudgements based on emotions

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Making rational judgements instead of emotional ones is an ideology now?We've got to protect the world from all this rational thought!

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Obviously that there are more theistic evolutionists then atheist evolutionist says nothing. How can you be so stupid to suppose it does?

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Syamsu... YOU said that statistically, Darwinism would drive people away from God. I pointed out that statistically, your statement was false. Here are your exact words:

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It says that statistically people who accept Darwinism tend afterwards not to believe in God whole, or deny the existence of God someplace.

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You might want to try remembering your own arguments before you go tossing around the word stupid.

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"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

Syamsu, your entire post to me is one big "nuh-uh." You don't address anything that I actually said in my post.You might want to muse a bit on that before tossing around the words like delusional.Regardless... I think I've squeezed what comedy I can out of this thread. Just remember, big guy... when it seems like the rest of the world is crazy, and you're the only one who sees the truth, it probably a good sign that you're not some sort of raving paranoid madman.

And a hearty "yuh-huh" back to your "nuh-uh", Syamsu.And I must stress that it is in fact I who am rubber, while you are merely glue.[This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 03-01-2004]

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"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

Don't bother with the "equality, wonder of creativity, freedom of choice" business, Mammuthus. Syamsu and I already went through it a couple pages back. After ignoring my responses for ages, he finally established that he what he means is that creationists promote these things when it comes to promoting creationism, and not at other times.And I agree as far as your earlier post goes... the next time I hear about evolution-slanted moderating around here, I'm going to laugh until I choke on my tongue and die. After many, many informative posts, DT was suspended for making an altar boy joke. Meanwhile, who knows how many absolute nutcases post endless belligerent diatribes that directly contradict the forum rules, without action.

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"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

Oops, did I say "a couple pages back?"Checking up, it seems it started on page 5.He finally begins his response on page 7.

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"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

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You and Dan have produced nothing worthwile at all in this thread, and now you are pedanticly insulted cause I don't answer your lurid vitriol or halfbaked satire.

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Oh heck, I can get way more lurid than this.Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go fight the good fight against heliocentric ideology.

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"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

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If we did not talk to you, nobody would.

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And how sad would that be? It would be like a little puppy, whimpering outside in the rain, with nobody stopping to pat him on the head!Well... maybe like David Icke's puppy whimpering outside in the rain. But a sad puppy nonetheless.

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"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

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That's quite a poor analogy don't you think?

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1) All my analogies are poor. Get used to it.2) Care to explain why, or are we still playing, "I say it, and that makes it so?"

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Also, it's typical of thinkers of a certain persuasion not to offer any real arguments or proof but simply to try and belittle someone else.

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Such as only responding to a point with, "That's quite a poor analogy don't you think?"

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And it still doesn't prove evolution.

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Does it?

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I'm sorry, where did I even imply that I was trying to prove evolution in this thread?Oh man, I hope I get used as a new creationist strawman... "Dan Carroll claims to be proving evolution, but all he does is ramble on about Eliza Dushku's boobs! Ms. Dushku's breasts, while impressive, do not constitute proof of evolution..."

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"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

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To make references like that without saying how the references support your opinion that the science of ecology / extinction is well developed is against forum rules. To address your opponent talking about ass all the time is against forum rules.

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If the moderators are reading... Syamsu wants the forum rules to be enforced! Don't let him down!

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"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya