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Author Topic:   Winter: Baby, It's Cold Outside!
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 62 of 188 (904613)
01-02-2023 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by ringo
01-02-2023 11:22 AM


Re: Midwest unprepared
I gave you examples in the post you are quoting Message 44. You said, "Fossil fuels are voluntarily purchased by people who desire to have them." and I replied that so are drugs, explosives and poison gasses. All of them are voluntarily purchased by people who desire to have them. All of them have had laws passed against them.
Taq brought up "laws" to address the fossil fuel issue. I wasn't referring to non-related laws like drugs or explosives. I was referring to his, or your, propositions for laws to deal with the fossil fuel issue. You know, authoritarian laws.
To spell it out for you, laws don't prevent people from doing what they want to do.
They often do, when authoritarian laws do things like deny people the ability to register their cars because they don't pass climate change testing. Policemen who pull unregistered cars over carry guns.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by ringo, posted 01-02-2023 11:22 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Theodoric, posted 01-02-2023 10:38 PM marc9000 has replied
 Message 67 by ringo, posted 01-03-2023 10:54 AM marc9000 has replied
 Message 68 by Taq, posted 01-03-2023 10:55 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 64 of 188 (904616)
01-02-2023 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by dwise1
01-02-2023 1:01 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
quote:
High-RWAs operate almost constantly on fear and hate. While everybody experiences and reacts through fear at one time or another, high-RWAs do so almost constantly such that they are forever surrounded by horrific existential threats like people saying "Happy Holidays". I seem to recall it was Roger Ailes who described the FOX News content that he wanted to see as "whatever would scare your grandfather."
Climate change alarmists operate almost constantly on fear (climate change) and hate. (of Republicans) They are forever surrounded by horrific existential threats of climate change.
quote:
High-RWAs divide the world between "us" and "them" while viewing "them" as the mortal enemies of "us".
Pot, meet kettle. It seems like a lot of Altemeyer's philosophy is to transfer Democrat characteristics on Republicans.
quote:
While authoritarian leaders are normally not high-RWA, they do turn to high-RWA followers as "low-hanging fruit" who are so easy to organize into an army of mindless sheeple who will follow you anywhere.
A lot of Democrat voters are terrified of climate change, and will follow oil company hating Democrats anywhere.
quote:
"Tell a high-RWA that you believe in what he does and he'll believe you and follow you. Tell that to a low-RWA and he will not believe you." That is why Republicans (typically high-RWA) will follow Dear Leader to the end, whereas Democrats (typically low-RWA) are nearly as hard to herd than cats.
Biden gets no criticism from the news media. The wide open southern border issue was completely covered up in their news reports months before the last election. There's never been a better example of sheeple following their dear leader (Biden) to the end. The Biden thread here has been dead since summer. He must be perfect!
quote:
"Republicans fall in lock-step. Democrats fall in love."
Low-RWAs tend to view others in society as being fellow members of that society, holding the view that we are all in the same boat so we all need to work together for our common goals and benefit.
Yes, the "common good", COMMUNISM.
quote:
High-RWAs view others in society as the "them" enemy and conduct themselves accordingly.
NOTE: high-RWAs tend to seek to punish the victims of wrong-doing or disasters. Consider Republicans voting against aid for hurricane victims in Puerto Rico and NY/NJ (Hurricane Sandy), whereas Democrats vote for hurricane disaster aid for red states.
Yes, GROW THE GOVERNMENT.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by dwise1, posted 01-02-2023 1:01 PM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by ringo, posted 01-03-2023 10:58 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 65 of 188 (904617)
01-02-2023 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Theodoric
01-02-2023 10:38 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
Emissions laws are not authoritarian. These laws are doing exactly what the Constitution spelled out its purpose is. This is the part RWNJs ignore.
quote:
quote:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
The following is the part that Democrats ignore;
quote:
“With respect to the two words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.” Thomas Jefferson.
Thomas Jefferson Rejects the Power of Congress to “Do Whatever Evil They Please” | Tenth Amendment Center

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Theodoric, posted 01-02-2023 10:38 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Theodoric, posted 01-02-2023 11:23 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 81 of 188 (904714)
01-05-2023 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by ringo
01-03-2023 10:54 AM


Re: Midwest unprepared
marc9000 writes:
I wasn't referring to non-related laws like drugs or explosives. I was referring to his, or your, propositions for laws to deal with the fossil fuel issue.
How is there a difference?
One is about tradition and common sense, the other is about authoritarianism.
So you're another right-wing nut who doesn't know what authoritarian means.
I showed the definition of it in Message 61. It's very simple.
People are also denied the ability to register cars that are unsafe to be on the road.
False. No federal laws denying auto registration due to any type of mechanical inspection. Maybe a few liberal states, but not federal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by ringo, posted 01-03-2023 10:54 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by ringo, posted 01-06-2023 11:26 AM marc9000 has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 82 of 188 (904715)
01-05-2023 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Taq
01-03-2023 10:55 AM


Re: Midwest unprepared
marc9000 writes:
You know, authoritarian laws.

What makes them authoritarian?
When they're promoted and enacted by special interests, rather than the legislative process. Or when the legislators are corrupted.
marc9000 writes:
They often do, when authoritarian laws do things like deny people the ability to register their cars because they don't pass climate change testing.

How is that authoritarian?
quote:
Authoritarianism ; the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Taq, posted 01-03-2023 10:55 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Taq, posted 01-10-2023 11:18 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 83 of 188 (904716)
01-05-2023 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Taq
01-03-2023 10:58 AM


Re: Midwest unprepared
marc9000 writes:
The U.S. government recently hired 87,000 new IRS agents. That is additional authoritarianism.

WHAT?????? Enforcing laws is authoritarianism? What are you smoking?
Some people believe we already have enough IRS agents. That we could better use 87,000 more border patrol police.
marc9000 writes:
Of course, and it won't mention Green New Deal authoritarianism.

What is in the Green New Deal that you find authoritarian?
quote:
So the Green New Deal imagines a great leap forward, from a slow, voluntary shift to electrified transportation to a swift, mandated one.
The Green New Deal: What It Would Mean for Transportation - The Greenlining Institute
Mandates, mandates, mandates. By authoritarians.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Taq, posted 01-03-2023 10:58 AM Taq has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 84 of 188 (904717)
01-05-2023 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by ringo
01-03-2023 10:58 AM


Re: Midwest unprepared
marc9000 writes:
Climate change alarmists operate almost constantly on fear
...So do zookeepers. "Don't put your hand in the cages."

There are good reasons to warn people about dangerous things.
Free people should have enough sense to know a lot about danger. Sometimes they have to be warned, when the warnings make sense to them, when they can see the danger. We can't see danger in things like global temperatures, when we can't directly sense it. When it's promoted by special interests.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by ringo, posted 01-03-2023 10:58 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by ringo, posted 01-06-2023 11:38 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 85 of 188 (904719)
01-05-2023 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Taq
01-03-2023 5:43 PM


Re: Taking the Temp in the Room
Let me see if I understand the right wing view on things.

Authoritarianism is where a country makes laws and then puts people in charge of making sure people don't break those laws. Therefore, every country on the face of the Earth is authoritarian.
Not the right wing view, not what the definition says.
What right wingers think our government should do is just let people pollute as much as they want. Dump tons of radioactive waste into every river system on the continent?
Not the right wing view. If pollution happens to the extent that people can sense it for themselves, then it's taken care of by the legislative process. Not things like slight changes in global temperatures that people can't sense, that they only hear about from special interests.
If you want to understand what the USofA would look like if these type of right wingers were in charge, just watch any popular post-apocalyptic show you know of where there's no laws and no police. That's what they want, apparently.
Far better than watching a show would be to open a history book.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Taq, posted 01-03-2023 5:43 PM Taq has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 91 of 188 (904900)
01-10-2023 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Taq
01-10-2023 11:18 AM


Re: Midwest unprepared
Can you name a non-authoritarian law that has passed?
I would consider laws prohibiting things like murder and robbery to be non-authoritarian. Most people overwhelmingly agree with laws like that. It goes back to what I said about tradition and common sense. If you think laws against murder and robbery are authoritarian because they take away personal freedoms of murderers and robbers, that's fine, we then have nothing more to discuss. Is that what the Bob Altemeyer book said that Dwise1 referenced? Have you read it?
quote:
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. - John Adams
John Adams Quotes About Morality | A-Z Quotes
How well morality works in a society can be confirmed by history. For some people, it's common sense. Especially people from Adam's day, who experienced, or heard about first hand, government tyranny and oppression. Or some people today like myself, who have actually picked up a history book. The further and further we get from U.S. foundings, the more people there are who take for granted the U.S. way of life, and play into the hands of wannabe / future tyrants.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Taq, posted 01-10-2023 11:18 AM Taq has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 92 of 188 (904901)
01-10-2023 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by ringo
01-06-2023 11:38 AM


Re: Midwest unprepared
The special interests are trying to sell more petroleum products, more gas=guzzling cars, etc.
This is where climate change alarmists always stop. They never specifically name solutions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by ringo, posted 01-06-2023 11:38 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by xongsmith, posted 01-10-2023 9:34 PM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 94 by Rahvin, posted 01-10-2023 9:41 PM marc9000 has replied
 Message 96 by ringo, posted 01-11-2023 11:13 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 103 of 188 (904931)
01-11-2023 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Rahvin
01-10-2023 9:41 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
marc9000 writes:
This is where climate change alarmists always stop. They never specifically name solutions.

...are you kidding?

The primary mitigation against climate change is the move away from fossil fuels. Not just consumer vehicles, but power generation, freight, industrial use, etc.
Yes I know, and that mitigation is to do it QUICKLY. The Green New Deal was proposed by A.O.C. in 2019. It's now 2023. 7 more years to 2030, 4 years since 2019. The Green New Deal proposes 100% clean energy by 2030. Think we'll make it by then? Without drastic new authoritarian laws? We constantly get specifics about the recent increases in global temperatures, complete with charts and graphs and predictions and all of that. Why can't we get specifics about what new laws we'll need to achieve the 2030 goal? From Message 57;
NosyNed writes:
If you step back and look at it we are way, way to slow to stop burning fossil fuels.
"Authoritarian"? Rules are needed when the oil giants have been deliberately spreading misinformation after knowing for decades there is a problem. It's the same reason we need to lock up serial killers.

We left getting on with it about a generation too long so now the disruption and difficulty will be greater than it had to be. Leaving it any longer will only make the pain that much greater.
WHAT RULES?
From way back in Message 24;
Taq writes:
Why can't governments use laws to encourage the replacement of fossil fuels? Why won't this help?
WHAT LAWS? Does anyone here know what the word "specific" means?
The solution is wind, solar, hydro, and nuclear. Nuclear would have been better a decade or two ago; now, it takes so long to construct new nuclear plants that it's unlikely to help. Hydro power is similar, it takes a while to build dams. Wind and solar are the best current solutions, and there are technological advances being made that may play a significant role as well.
This is happening through free markets. If there are government laws that are speeding up this process, name them specifically. And we'll look at their costs.
And because it's already too late to prevent all of the effects of climate change, we need to evaluate natural disaster planning. 100-year storms are now going to happen a lot more often than 100 years. Levies need to be reinforced, in some cases raised. Areas that are currently above sea level need to start planning for the near future, when they will be below sea level.
This would be a ton of specifics, I won't ask for all that. But if you're aware of steps that have been taken already, and steps that are proposed, do you have any figures on what the COSTS are?
I could go on. The US Dept of Defense has quite literally identified climate change as the biggest threat to US national security for years now, and has been planning accordingly. Tomorrow's wars will be fought over water resources. The US military has been planning to roll out electric Humvees (not actually Hummers, but same role) and tanks. Yes, electric tanks.
I'm not alone in thinking tomorrow's wars will be fought over an economic meltdown. Biden has signed into law $5 trillion in new spending, in his first two years. $31 trillion in debt now, will it become $36 trillion by 2024?
People have been literally screaming specific solutions for decades. Did you fall and hit your head?
But this is stuff that's talked about literally all the time.
Specific solutions involving free markets yes, but no specifics about LAWS. And the free market solutions are moving WAY to slow, to meet the goals of the Green New Deal. !00% renewable by 2030? What are the proposals to do with all the new fossil fuel burning cars and trucks and farm machinery and construction machinery that's being built in 2023? Throw it all away? How many more trillions in debt to cover all that waste?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Rahvin, posted 01-10-2023 9:41 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Taq, posted 01-12-2023 1:55 PM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 104 of 188 (904932)
01-11-2023 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by ringo
01-11-2023 11:13 AM


Re: Midwest unprepared
Didn't you see the specific solutions when you quoted them?
1. Sell less petroleum products.
2. Sell fewer gas-guzzling cars.
"Sell less, sell fewer". How is that achieved specifically? New laws for the sellers? New laws for the buyers? A "yes" answer isn't specific. I'm wondering about specific details. One oil company gets destroyed by laws? All oil companies get downsized by laws? Buyers aren't permitted by laws to buy what they want and need? If they can't get what they need, do more government programs help them out? Costs?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by ringo, posted 01-11-2023 11:13 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 110 of 188 (905042)
01-14-2023 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Taq
01-12-2023 1:55 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
The Green New Deal was entirely aspirational. There is no teeth in it. Why are conservatives so obsessed with it?
You're saying it had no purpose? Why did it receive so much attention in the media back in 2019? Conservatives are obsessed with it because they believe it had/has a strong purpose. To grow the government and weaken free markets.
Are there any laws you don't think are authoritarian?
I've touched on it in a previous message. Laws against robbery and murder. Many others - it goes back to what I said about tradition and common sense.
marc9000 writes:
WHAT LAWS? Does anyone here know what the word "specific" means?

Subsidies, carbon taxes, tax credits for purchasing an electric car, tax credits for home improvements that reduce your carbon footprint, tax credits for installing solar . . . on and on and on. Economic incentives and disincentives. Tax fossil fuels and use that tax to subsidize greener technologies.
Numbers? Percentages? I know you don't have them, nobody does, not even the most fringe left wing authoritarians, YET. They can vary from the most tiny figures and percentages that won't really change anything, to economy destroying percentages and numbers that will greatly lower the standards of living for most people, except the authoritarians. You blindly trust the authoritarians to set those numbers and percentages just right, don't you? I don't. Because cooling the planet and calming the storms will come in a distant second to the priorities of the authoritarians. Their first priority will be their own political power and money.
Right now, the authoritarians are waiting and watching, as the mainstream news media sensationalizes every weather event they possibly can, for more and more people to say, through their political involvement and voting, that "we trust you authoritarians! You set the numbers and percentages, and we just know you'll get it just right! And you'll even GET EVEN with all those successful rich people that we're so jealous of!"
No one is asking anything to be thrown away. Where do you come up with this?
The Green New Deal. It demands it. (100% clean energy by 2030.) I come up with it by observing what gets started usually in California. Remember that link I showed earlier that people in Sacramento have been recently restricted on how much they can work on their own cars?
The plan is to incentivize greener technologies, so farmers could see tax credits for purchasing hydrogen or electric powered equipment when they become available. You could see grants and subsidies going to companies that are designing and manufacturing greener technologies.

This isn't that hard to figure out.
What's hard to figure out is how so many people can casually give the government cart blanche to set figures and percentages, that have to be paid for, by a country that's $31 trillion in debt.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Taq, posted 01-12-2023 1:55 PM Taq has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 111 of 188 (905043)
01-14-2023 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Tanypteryx
01-12-2023 2:35 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
They already make billions in profits and it's way past time for them to pay their fair share of taxes.
Ah yes, the main purpose of the Green New Deal. Jealousy and hatred.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-12-2023 2:35 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-14-2023 10:43 PM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 117 by Omnivorous, posted 07-12-2023 6:55 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 118 of 188 (911554)
07-14-2023 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Omnivorous
07-12-2023 6:55 AM


Baby it's cold outside, (in the southern hemisphere)
Don't worry. You are known to us.

After the Revolution, we'll take care of you.
That's right!! Kamala Harris is already talking about "reducing the population".
Kamala Harris Pushes Population Control at Environmental Event - LifeNews.com
Be interesting to see her opening proposals on this. She's already in favor of abortion right up to birth, maybe run it on past that and go for one or two year olds? Maybe just, in a very nice way, asking Republicans to voluntarily limit their lifespans? If not enough of them do it, then get started with the mandates?
The mainstream media cannot contain their excitement in recent reports of "the hottest days in the history of the planet" (or at least the last 40 or so years, when the scientific community got its political aspirations into high gear) Ever wonder how those in southern Argentina, southern Chile, or New Zealand think about that, since they're in the dead of winter right now? Probably not, no one cares what they think. The southern hemisphere has no worldwide political influence or power.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Omnivorous, posted 07-12-2023 6:55 AM Omnivorous has not replied

Replies to this message:
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