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Author Topic:   Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2744 of 2932 (904826)
01-08-2023 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2740 by Kleinman
01-07-2023 5:20 PM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman writes:
Now which bacteria is he descended from.
Again... it's what common ancestor that WE (including you) and modern bacteria are ALL descended from.
Kleinman writes:
Or doesn't the cowboy know?
Of course it isn't always possible to trace ancestry backward that far with that kind of precision. We might not know which one of your German ancestors fought the Romans 2000-odd years ago but we DO know that the Germans DID fight the Romans 2000-odd years ago.
Kleinman writes:
Sure I get it.
No. You don't. You don't even get simple mathematics.
Kleinman writes:
When did you descend from bacteria?
Why can't you understand such a simple principle? WE (including YOU) descended from an ancestor that modern bacteria also descended from.
You continue to demonstrate that you don't get it.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2740 by Kleinman, posted 01-07-2023 5:20 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2746 by Kleinman, posted 01-08-2023 1:50 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2747 of 2932 (904833)
01-08-2023 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 2746 by Kleinman
01-08-2023 1:50 PM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman writes:
I get your claim.
You really don't. You demonstrate that by repeating the same old same old misconception over and over and over again.
Kleinman writes:
Your horse is related to fecal bacteria, cows are related to fecal bacteria, and you are related to fecal bacteria...
WE (including YOU) are related to horses and to cows and to fecal bacteria.
Kleinman writes:
...but you don't know which bacteria you descended from.
Nor do you know precisely which anti-Roman German you are descended from. What you do not know does not determine what actually happened.
Kleinman writes:
Drug-resistant bacteria are also descended from drug-sensitive bacteria and they are also related to drug-sensitive bacteria but you don't know how or why this happens.
You CLAIM (without evidence) that I don't know how this happens but you DEMONSTRATE that YOU do not understand simple mathematics. You RUN AWAY from questions about simple mathematics.
Kleinman writes:
The fake cowboy seems to know what happened millions of years ago but doesn't know what is happening right now.
And the ignorant Kleinman claims to know that I am a "fake cowboy". He couldn't possibly know that.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2746 by Kleinman, posted 01-08-2023 1:50 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2748 by Kleinman, posted 01-08-2023 2:28 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2749 of 2932 (904836)
01-08-2023 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2748 by Kleinman
01-08-2023 2:28 PM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman writes:
Sure I do fake cowboy.
No you don't. And you have no way of knowing whether I am a fake cowboy or a real cowboy.
Kleinman writes:
You fantasize about something you imagine happened millions of years ago but can't figure out what happens now.
YOU fantasize about biology when you know nothing about biology. YOU fantasize about mathematics when you know nothing about mathematics. YOU can't figure out the difference between relatedness and descent. YOU can't figure out the difference between asexual reproduction and sexual reproduction.
Kleinman writes:
Perhaps you should apply your math, DU → MB.
When YOU understand that A → B and A → C are not the same as B →C, you can try to talk to the gownups.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2748 by Kleinman, posted 01-08-2023 2:28 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2750 by Kleinman, posted 01-08-2023 3:03 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2755 of 2932 (904856)
01-09-2023 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 2750 by Kleinman
01-08-2023 3:03 PM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman writes:
Yeah, right, you are really Sharon Stone.
I may be a fake Sharon Stone but that has nothing to do with whether or not I'm a real cowboy. Try to learn some logic.
Kleinman writes:
And you don't know which bacteria you descended from but you are related to fecal bacteria.
And YOU don't even understand what "descent" means.
Kleinman writes:
And you know this because your mathematics is DU → MB.
The mathematics is clear. And your attempt at joking about it doesn't work.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2750 by Kleinman, posted 01-08-2023 3:03 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2756 by Kleinman, posted 01-09-2023 10:57 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2757 of 2932 (904864)
01-09-2023 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 2756 by Kleinman
01-09-2023 10:57 AM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman writes:
Who is joking?
Well, your DU → MB is not mathematics. You haven't even defined your terms.
Kleinman writes:
Is this what your spurs look like?
If you have figured out how to google spurs, you should be able to google how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail. You'll see the explanations that SCIENCE has.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2756 by Kleinman, posted 01-09-2023 10:57 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2758 by Kleinman, posted 01-09-2023 11:37 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2759 of 2932 (904867)
01-09-2023 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 2758 by Kleinman
01-09-2023 11:37 AM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman writes:
I'm using your definitions...
No you are not. I have never defined D, U or M. I have defined B as a descendent of ancestor A but nothing in your DU → MB says anything about that.
Kleinman writes:
You are a Sharon Stone wannabe, and that's your fantasy.
You know nothing about my fantasies.
Kleinman writes:
And if you think you are a relative of fecal bacteria...
WE (including YOU) are ALL related to ALL living things. The observation of gross anatomy concluded that centuries ago and the conclusion has been confirmed by DNA.
Kleinman writes:
... don't let me stop you with the mathematical and experimental facts.
You won't stop the facts from coming.
Kleinman writes:
And using your definition, it is DU → MB.
Again, not my definitions. You're just blowing a smokescreen to try to hide your foolishness.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2758 by Kleinman, posted 01-09-2023 11:37 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2760 by Kleinman, posted 01-09-2023 12:11 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 2761 of 2932 (904869)
01-09-2023 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2760 by Kleinman
01-09-2023 12:11 PM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman writes:
If you understand your own definition you could explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.
Nonsense.
If YOU understood mathematics at all, what I am talking about is YOUR mistaken impression that mammals evoled from fish. I am telling you that mammals and fish evolved from a common ancestor. Mammals and fish are cousins. Fish are not the ancestors of mammals. Do you understand the difference between a grandparent and a cousin?
None of this has anything to do with drug resistance or cancer treatments. You are nowhere near able to understand those.
Kleinman writes:
you would need to understand some introductory probability theory.
You have no basis to talk about probability theory.
Kleinman writes:
I understand you are too busy with your Sharon Stone fetish.
You understand nothing.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2760 by Kleinman, posted 01-09-2023 12:11 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2762 by Kleinman, posted 01-09-2023 12:30 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 2763 of 2932 (904885)
01-10-2023 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 2762 by Kleinman
01-09-2023 12:30 PM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman writes:
Of course, your understanding of your own definitions is nonsense.
No. Everybody understands my definitions except YOU.
Kleinman writes:
That's why you think you are related to fecal bacteria.
WE (including YOU) are related to fecal bacteria and to fish and to reptiles and to birds and to cows and to pigs and to all living things. This has been known ever since Linnaeus classified them in the 1700s and it has more recently been confirmed by DNA.
Kleinman writes:
Did you know your relatives evolve resistance to antibiotics?
There's no point in going into any depth with you until you understand the difference between relatives and ancestors. Your cousin is not your grandfather.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2762 by Kleinman, posted 01-09-2023 12:30 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2764 by Kleinman, posted 01-25-2023 10:48 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 2778 of 2932 (905469)
01-27-2023 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2764 by Kleinman
01-25-2023 10:48 AM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman writes:
You are already in way over your head....
You're in no position to say that. You have demonstrated that you don't know the first thing about evolution. Come back when you have learned the difference between cousins and grandparents.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2764 by Kleinman, posted 01-25-2023 10:48 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2779 by Kleinman, posted 01-27-2023 2:20 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 2780 of 2932 (905488)
01-28-2023 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 2779 by Kleinman
01-27-2023 2:20 PM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman writes:
I know how your imaginary relatives evolve drug resistance.
If you think my relatives and your relatives and everybody's relatives are imaginary, you know nothing.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2779 by Kleinman, posted 01-27-2023 2:20 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2781 by Kleinman, posted 01-28-2023 12:35 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2782 of 2932 (905549)
01-30-2023 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 2781 by Kleinman
01-28-2023 12:35 PM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman writes:
ringo, you are not related to bacteria....
I am and you are. You can disown your family all you like but it doesn't change your DNA.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2781 by Kleinman, posted 01-28-2023 12:35 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2783 by Kleinman, posted 01-30-2023 1:39 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 2786 of 2932 (905598)
01-31-2023 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 2783 by Kleinman
01-30-2023 1:39 PM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman writes:
You have been indoctrinated by people that don't understand biological evolution.
The only one here who doesn't understand biological evolution is you. You don't even understand that grandparents are different from cousins. That is an abysmal misunderstanding of biological evolution.
Kleinman writes:
Universal common descent is pseudo-scientific mythology...
Universal common descent was understood centuries ago because of gross anatomy - and it has been confirmed conclusively by DNA. Your misunderstanding of mathematics can not undo reality.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2783 by Kleinman, posted 01-30-2023 1:39 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2788 by Kleinman, posted 01-31-2023 12:40 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 2787 of 2932 (905599)
01-31-2023 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 2785 by Kleinman
01-31-2023 8:13 AM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman writes:
AZPaul3 doesn't do well when his bubble is burst.
Kleinman looks at his cousins and sees his grandparents.
When Kleinman sees bubbles, he's seeing the inside of his head.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2785 by Kleinman, posted 01-31-2023 8:13 AM Kleinman has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 2789 of 2932 (905606)
01-31-2023 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 2788 by Kleinman
01-31-2023 12:40 PM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman writes:
If you or any biologist understood biological evolution, you could explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.
Yup. They can. They do. If you understood the difference between grandparents and cousins, you might be able to understand them.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2788 by Kleinman, posted 01-31-2023 12:40 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2790 by Kleinman, posted 01-31-2023 1:26 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(4)
Message 2791 of 2932 (905687)
02-02-2023 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 2790 by Kleinman
01-31-2023 1:26 PM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinman writes:
... a link that couldn't explain the Kishony experiment.
Couldn'nt explain it to YOU, maybe, but nobody else seems to have a problem understanding it. When you learn the difference between your grandfather and your cousin, you might be able to understand the Kishony experiment too.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2790 by Kleinman, posted 01-31-2023 1:26 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2792 by Kleinman, posted 02-02-2023 12:49 PM ringo has replied

  
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