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Author Topic:   Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2547 of 2926 (903577)
12-13-2022 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 2544 by Kleinman
12-13-2022 12:03 PM


And there you go trying to bury us under more and more garbage.
Are you one of those that believe that the multiplication rule does not apply to biological evolution?
Yes, it applies where it does actually apply.
We do know how it applies. Why don't you?
 
We already know that you are a stupid creationist (which includes all the creationist attributes of arrogant ignorance, lying and deceiving, etc) and that you don't know what you are talking about.
We also know beyond a doubt that you are nothing but a troll.
What do you have left to prove? That you're a stupid creationist troll who posts nothing but garbage? We already know that!
You have nothing more to "contribute" or to detract. You shot your wad long ago. Why are you still here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2544 by Kleinman, posted 12-13-2022 12:03 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2550 by Kleinman, posted 12-13-2022 1:06 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2552 of 2926 (903585)
12-13-2022 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 2550 by Kleinman
12-13-2022 1:06 PM


Really, you know where the multiplication rule applies?
And more importantly, we also know where it does not apply. Something that you have never been able to figure out; eg, your Message 2466:
Kleinman writes:
Every once in a while, someone wins two lotteries of the tens of millions of people that play lotteries and you think that everyone wins two lotteries. You really need to learn how to do the mathematics of biological evolution.
First, what you wrote has nothing to do with the mathematics of biological evolution. We all know that, but you don't. Furthermore, despite our attempts to correct you, you obstinately refuse to ever learn. That is a classic definition of stupidity, in this case willful stupidity.
Second, if you are claiming that we conclude that "everyone wins two lotteries", then you are a damned liar. Or a completely delusional idiot. Which is it?
Third, you just blindly apply the multiplication rule even when it doesn't apply. If you were to develop a math model for evolution, then you could avoid making such a gross mistake. But you refuse to use a math model, so you keep arriving at stupid nonsense.
I've been sharing a quote from Marcus Lycus with your circle-jerk buddy, Sledge, but it applies to you too:
quote:
But you'll never learn, you'll be a eunuch all your life.
Or to steal a line from the Muse, Serendipity:
quote:
[We have taken the time to study and to learn what evolution is and how it works, whereas you could never be bothered.] That is why we know what we are talking about and you're nothing but a schmuck.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2550 by Kleinman, posted 12-13-2022 1:06 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2555 by Kleinman, posted 12-13-2022 3:22 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 2558 of 2926 (903595)
12-13-2022 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 2555 by Kleinman
12-13-2022 3:22 PM


Yeah, same old stupid bullshit posturing. More than 1550 postings of empty trolling garbage that demonstrate nothing except for what an idiot you are.
And you wonder why everybody laughs at you? Why nobody can take seriously anything you vomit forth? Well, that's mainly because we can all see through your stupid bullshit.
And then you just keep pouring out more and more of the exact same stupid garbage. More than 1550 repetitions of the exact same stupid bullshit! More than 1550 instances of a complete waste of bandwidth and server resources!
You stupid troll.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2555 by Kleinman, posted 12-13-2022 3:22 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2560 by Kleinman, posted 12-13-2022 5:46 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 2573 of 2926 (903625)
12-14-2022 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 2563 by Phat
12-14-2022 8:28 AM


Re: As Long As The Circus Is In Town
I've got one that you might like, Kleinman. Personally I think the guy is full of it, but his presentation goes to great lengths to support the theory of a young earth
Real science, history, geology, population growth, archeology, and common sense prove Earth is only a few thousand years old, NOT billions of years old.
Yes, he is full of it. He is also a truck driver in the Philippines who has collected a lot of YEC rubbish and posted it in one long run-on -- consider the ID nonsense posted by his compatriot, MrIntelligentDesign. The best that he accomplishes is to demonstrate that US and Australian YECs have been successful in polluting the rest of the world with their nonsense.
And, like with all creationists, nobody will ever collect his offer of a reward to anyone refuting his page because he will not honor that offer. Like trying to collect on a MAGAt reward for finding a case of voter fraud -- what few cases could be found were all Republicans voting more than once for Trump, not what that Texan MAGAt expected.
So much garbage there to wade through, plus most of it consists of bald assertions without any backing, hence giving us nothing to work with. But let's look at his section on population growth, which is perhaps one of the stupidest YEC claims out there.
The main thrust of his claim is to argue that by using "reasonable" population growth rates the current world population could have resulted within 6000 years from the Biblical First Family. However, that does not limit the length of time, such that humans could have existed for 300,000 years before our population's growth spurt.
His "response" is to assert the standard YEC population claim:
quote:
If scientists are right by claiming animals and humans appeared millions of years ago, even if millions die annually from natural causes and diseases, there will be trillions upon trillions of animals and people today, stacking 200 feet high on all of Earth’s surface.
Even if dogs and pigs perform %90 abortions, out of their 20 offspring every few months, the population will reach billions in a few years.
People and animals crowded together such that they cover all the earth's surface (including the oceans making up about 75% of our planet's surface)? Absolutely impossible! And incredibly stupid!
The problem is that Dr. Henry Morris, the source of this YEC claim (he presented it in his 1961 The Genesis Flood and continued to develop it over the years; see my CompuServe library article, THE BUNNY BLUNDER (or What's Up, Doc Morris?). Morris used the highly simplistic pure-birth model which is the exponential growth of a population with no constraints (eg, the initial population growth from that first fruit fly couple you put into the jar in high school biology). The truth of the matter is that you need to use something like the logistic model of population growth in which that initial exponential turns into a logarithmic curve as it approaches the environment's carrying capacity somewhat asymptotically. IOW, no environment will support a population which is larger than what it can support.
For example, consider a population of human hunter-gatherers living in something like the Kalahari Desert (population density of about 1 per square mile). Let's take that as how many people a square mile area in that environment can support. Now let's assume that this population will range five miles in any direction, so they must draw from an area of 100 square miles for sustenance. That would set their maximum population at 100 individuals. Below that population limit and there's enough to eat and their population can grow. But above that population limit there's not enough food, and the more you go past that population limit the more the lack of food will be felt, including death by starvation.
So then, if an environment can only support 100 individuals, what should we expect the population size to be after 100 years? Or 1000? Or 100,000? Or a million? Or millions? About 100. That creationists would expect that population to be in the millions just demonstrates how mind-bogglingly stupid creationism is.
BTW, their human population growth claim is called "The Bunny Blunder" because applying their model to rabbits "proves" that the current world population of rabbits originated from two bunnies about 100 years ago, therefore the earth cannot be any older than one century.
Nothing to see there. Unless one wishes to see what kind of nonsense creationists are pushing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2563 by Phat, posted 12-14-2022 8:28 AM Phat has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2579 of 2926 (903689)
12-15-2022 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 2578 by ringo
12-15-2022 10:42 AM


Yes, you may be having hallucinations. That would explain your blindness to reality.
I've recommended to him that he go see Psych, but he's too far gone to realize that he should.
I've come across at least one anti-theist who defined religion as a mental illness. I normally would not go that far, but specimens like Kleinman, Dredge, and candle2 just make such an incredibly strong case of their religions being mental illnesses.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2578 by ringo, posted 12-15-2022 10:42 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2581 by ringo, posted 12-15-2022 11:13 AM dwise1 has not replied
 Message 2583 by Kleinman, posted 12-15-2022 2:14 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 2586 of 2926 (903713)
12-15-2022 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 2583 by Kleinman
12-15-2022 2:14 PM


One does not need to have a degree to see when someone is severely mentally ill. That is why we almost instinctively avoid such people on the street.
You present batshit all over the place. The stench is palpable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2583 by Kleinman, posted 12-15-2022 2:14 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2588 by Kleinman, posted 12-15-2022 5:12 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 2590 of 2926 (903721)
12-15-2022 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 2588 by Kleinman
12-15-2022 5:12 PM


One of my sailors thanked me for saving his life.
While directing him through an online evolution (our more senior sailors with little to no computer experience needed almost constant supervision while online (which is why I packed a pocket laser -- "Don't you make me take out my laser!") ), I noticed a small scab on the top of his head that just didn't look right, so I told him about it and recommended that he see his doctor to have it checked. It turned out to be a pre-K that the doctor biopsied and removed -- being a Celt who spent almost his entire life in Southern Calif., I have had a lot of personal experience with those. He was a mail carrier, balding, who had spent years working out in the sun without a hat. He thanked me for saving him from skin cancer.
I didn't attempt to diagnose him nor attempt to treat him. Rather, I noticed that something might be wrong and advise him to have it checked out.
Dr. dwise1 knows all.
I certainly know a helluva lot more than you do.
Seriously, you should go to Psych to get checked out. At the very least to assess the level of brain damage you have suffered due to creationism and other wackadoodle religious nonsense (eg, you recently expressed a strong interest in young-earth creationist claims, which is the most brain-damaged aspect of creationism).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2588 by Kleinman, posted 12-15-2022 5:12 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 2608 of 2926 (903799)
12-16-2022 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 2605 by Tanypteryx
12-16-2022 6:00 PM


Conman the Bullshitter's bizarre continuous stream of vitriol and insults is something I have never encountered before in discussions of scientific subjects. I am at a loss to explain what motivates his behavior here and everywhere else he's left a record on the web. In this thread he has actually only endlessly repeated the same dozen or so sentences and clickbait to his vanity "papers," but it's all just the same bullshit.
What motivates all of Kleinman's horrific behavior?
He's a creationist. That's all creationists have to work with.
And he's also a fundamentalist Christian. Above all, they hate the truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2605 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-16-2022 6:00 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2611 by Kleinman, posted 12-16-2022 6:56 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2614 of 2926 (903811)
12-16-2022 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 2611 by Kleinman
12-16-2022 6:56 PM


Yep, typical creationist malfeasance.
You can always tell a creationist, but you just can't tell him anything.
Have you made an appointment with Psych yet? You shouldn't wait too long. Your symptoms are worsening.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2611 by Kleinman, posted 12-16-2022 6:56 PM Kleinman has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2615 by vimesey, posted 12-17-2022 4:49 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(2)
Message 2666 of 2926 (904505)
12-31-2022 4:51 AM
Reply to: Message 2664 by xongsmith
12-31-2022 12:59 AM


Re: Forewarned.
Kleinbottle writes:
Oh right, reptiles don't evolve into birds and fish don't evolve into mammals. You must be one of those fake cowboys who tell tall tales. Tell us all about those fake transitions you have. And you still don't know how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.
you can't find your way out of the bottle you are in,
And he still cannot ever tell us how the Internet works, nor computers, etc. So then according to him none of that works?
At least that's what I keep getting from him. That until absolutely everybody knows how everything works, then none of it could possibly work? Is it just me, or isn't that what he's been insisting on so fervently to everybody?
Complete and utter bullshit!
OBTW, your reference to the Klein bottle. It's basically the 3-D equivalent to the Möbius strip in that a Klein bottle has no differentiation between the outside and the inside of the same bottle. Which I guess means that it must be devoid of any actual content.
So by referring to "Little Man" as "Klein bottle", you are classifying him as devoid of content.
OK, that certainly does fit. Cool!
The cultural footnote is that Clifford Stoll later become interested in constructing Klein bottles.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2664 by xongsmith, posted 12-31-2022 12:59 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 2721 of 2926 (904743)
01-06-2023 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 2720 by ringo
01-06-2023 12:40 PM


Re: Forewarned.
He thinks he's related to dust, being descended from a Golem. And he sees no reason to try to rise above that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2720 by ringo, posted 01-06-2023 12:40 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2723 by Kleinman, posted 01-06-2023 1:46 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 2728 of 2926 (904755)
01-06-2023 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 2727 by Kleinman
01-06-2023 3:24 PM


Re: Forewarned.
Please, please take a class in biology. Preferably one that teaches evolution. Or maybe physical anthropology would be better (as per Dr Eugenie Scott's story; see below (not for you, but rather for those unafraid to learn something) ). Perhaps then you would finally no longer be so terrified of ringo's question that you've been running away from for ... how many months?:
ringo writes:
Do you understand yet that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C ?
Anybody with even the most minimal understanding of evolution would be able to answer that question with ease. Yet you repeatedly run away from it in terror.
Very similar to every other creationist I have encountered in the past four decades being terrified of that one question that none of them has ever been able to answer: "What the hell are you talking about?"
 
For the edification of those inclined to learn:
About 25 years ago I attended a meeting where Dr. Eugenie Scott, PhD Physical Anthropology and former Executive Director of the National Center for Science Education (NCSE), spoke.
In her presentation, she used her own experience in teaching the introductory physical anthropology class at a university in order to illustrate this famous quote by Theodosius Dobzhansky:
quote:
Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light, it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious, but making no meaningful picture as a whole.
(Theodosius Dobzhansky, Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution, American Biology Teacher 35:125-129 (March 1973), p. 129:)
She told of how she would always get senior undergraduate biology majors in her class who needed one more science course for their general-ed graduation requirements and chose her class for an "easy A" ("Little did those poor fools realize ... "). She also informed us that in many colleges and universities, the biology departments do not teach evolution to its undergraduates (she offered no reason why that was), so those biology majors in their final semester had not been taught evolution.
But in her class, she most definitely did teach evolution. She described watching those students' faces for that "AHA!" moment that eventually hit every single one of them: "So THAT's why ... !" Until they had had a chance to learn about evolution, nothing in all those years of biology classes had made any sense.
 
Now just for fun. I have seen you respond with interest to a fellow creationist's mention of young-earth claims. Here's one from "Dr" Kent Hovind (his "PhD" is from a diploma mill, plus it's in "Religious Education" though he uses it to try to pose as a scientist):
quote:
For instance, the Sun is burning, of course, and it's burning an enormous amount of fuel. It's losing about 5 million tons every second. Well, if the earth is billions of years old that creates a problem, because you couldn't go back 5 billion or 20 billion years like they say with the Sun constantly getting larger and larger and heavier and heavier. The Sun's gravity would of course become real great and would suck the earth in. Plus the Sun would be bigger and burn the earth up. It can't possibly be true that it's billions of years old.
Now, the 5 million tons per second rate is slightly exaggerated, but still within reason. The 5 billion (109) years figure is also slightly high, but still within reason (we can safely ignore the 20 billion year figure as him misspeaking on a radio show).
So what do you think of that young-earth claim?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2727 by Kleinman, posted 01-06-2023 3:24 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2729 by Kleinman, posted 01-06-2023 5:05 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2732 of 2926 (904761)
01-06-2023 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 2729 by Kleinman
01-06-2023 5:05 PM


Re: Forewarned.
No. According to your own logic, if you yourself are incapable of being able to describe how the Internet works, then it cannot possibly work!
Your argument is complete and utter bollocks (AKA "bullshit").
In the meantime, you continue to display abject ignorance of even the most basic aspects of evolution. One such indication is your utter terror when presented with ringo's question:
ringo writes:
Do you understand yet that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C ?
Please correct your deficiency. It is quite tiring to try to have any kind of discourse with such utterly stupid idiots as yourself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2729 by Kleinman, posted 01-06-2023 5:05 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2733 by Kleinman, posted 01-06-2023 5:52 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 2736 of 2926 (904768)
01-06-2023 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 2733 by Kleinman
01-06-2023 5:52 PM


Re: Forewarned.
It's your own stupid illogic.
And your own inability to understand even the most basic concepts of evolution.
Please at least try to learn something about evolution before you yet again make a complete fool of yourself posing as some kind of expert on evolution when you are so clearly clueless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2733 by Kleinman, posted 01-06-2023 5:52 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2739 by Kleinman, posted 01-07-2023 5:17 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2741 of 2926 (904804)
01-07-2023 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 2739 by Kleinman
01-07-2023 5:17 PM


Re: Forewarned.
Feel free to ignore the facts, the mathematics, and the physics.
Why should I? YOU do all that for all of us, and more!
Get a clue, you stupid idiot!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2739 by Kleinman, posted 01-07-2023 5:17 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2742 by Kleinman, posted 01-08-2023 10:41 AM dwise1 has replied

  
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