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Author | Topic: Lost Christianities | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Phat writes: Perhaps our new member just likes to air his opinion. You got a problem with that? He made a claim
quote: I doubt his claim is true. One reason I think it false is because the canon wasn't settled until the mid 4th century. But you know how this works, he now has to provide the evidence he's used to make the claim. If it's just an unevidenced opinion; end of conversation.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9146 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3
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Please stop trolling. If you don't have anything to add to the conversation, no one wants to hear your inane comments.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
No there is not.
There is indeed such a thing as "the church". Phat writes:
There is no such thing as "the creator" either. Every church has its own creator - and every church has it's own standards to define who is "chosen".
The church is the people on this planet who are called out and/or chosen by the Creator himself.. Phat writes:
You don't just "lack" evidence. You DENY the evidence that your idea is not the only idea.
Of course, you will argue that I lack evidence... Phat writes:
Again, there is no such thing as one set of "believers". There are many sets of believers, each with its own set of beliefs, which are often mutually exclusive.
... among believers... Phat writes:
No. You do not get your own evidence. Everybody has the same evidence. ... the evidence is in our hearts and not our carnally thinking minds. And your personal set of fairy tales and prejudices is just as carnal as eveybody else's.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How can you even say that with a straight face? You throw out almost everything that Jesus said in the Bible.
we (im assuming our new member also) believe that the Bible was inspired. Phat writes:
YOU are the one who claims you are not "limited" to a "dusty old book". How COULD you be "limited" by a book that you call "inspired"? It is not simply a book written by fallible humans with a secular motive to control the population.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: You throw out almost everything that Jesus said in the Bible. How can you even say that with a straight face? I've argued but one thing. That we are commanded to give everything up. It may well be true, but you politicize it and charge the (mainly) conservative evangelicals with failing to do so. In your mind, they reject everything Jesus said and you lump me with them.
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
There is indeed such a thing as "the church".
ringo writes: No there is not. There is no such thing as "the creator" either. You better put your copy of the book down and walk quietly away. You have no respect for the celestial author who inspired primative people to record His impressions on their hearts and minds.
ringo writes: Granted this is so. Humans are legends in their own minds. But truth is not relative, my friend. The Creator exists whether or not your "enlightened" intelligence accepts Him or not.
Every church has its own creator - and every church has it's own standards to define who is "chosen". ringo writes: OK, guilty as charged. Now what?
You DENY the evidence that your idea is not the only idea. ringo writes: Only one group is on the right track. Again, they are called out. They were chosen initially and they chose to respond. You, on the other hand, chose to follow your own intelligence. Wrong turn.
Again, there is no such thing as one set of "believers". There are many sets of believers, each with its own set of beliefs, which are often mutually exclusive. ringo writes: Yet only some accept it. Others look for excuses to trash it, reject it, and explain away their free will as if they were right. Everybody has the same evidence.
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Because you throw out almost everything that Jesus said in the Bible. ringo writes:
How can you even say that with a straight face? You throw out almost everything that Jesus said in the Bible. You throw out what Jesus said you must do to be saved. You throw out all of the evidence that that was a universal requirement: You throw out the disciples, you throw out the lady with two mites, you throw out the early church, you even throw out the Old Testament widow who fed Elijah.
Phat writes:
"One thing" with many threads of evidence.
I've argued but one thing. That we are commanded to give everything up. Phat writes:
Nonsense. I said that "you throw out almost everything that Jesus said in the Bible." There's nothing political about that. There's no mention of conservatives there.
It may well be true, but you politicize it and charge the (mainly) conservative evangelicals with failing to do so. Phat writes:
Again, nonsense. I am not "lumping you in" with anybody. I am talking about YOU ONLY. So what if other conservatives have the same contempt for Jesus that you have? In your mind, they reject everything Jesus said and you lump me with them.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Not as long as there are bullets in both of my guns, buster. You better put your copy of the book down and walk quietly away. YOU had better pick up the book, wipe the spit off and READ it.
Phat writes:
I have more respect for the authors, plural, than you have. YOU are the one who rejects the book. But the authors, plural, are no more "celestial" than Fred Flintstone.
You have no respect for the celestial author... Phat writes:
YOU are certainly a legend in your own mind, thinking I'm going to walk away.
Humans are legends in their own minds. Phat writes:
Go ahead and SHOW that it isn't.
But truth is not relative, my friend. Phat writes:
And his name is Quetzalcoatl, whether you accept him or not. Or his name is Zeus, whether you accept him or not.
The Creator exists whether or not your "enlightened" intelligence accepts Him or not. Phat writes:
Which group? Go ahead and SHOW us how you are right and everybody else is wrong.
ringo writes:
Only one group is on the right track. Again, there is no such thing as one set of "believers". There are many sets of believers, each with its own set of beliefs, which are often mutually exclusive. Phat writes:
Yup, Raelians are called out. They were chosen initially and they chose to respond. Again, they are called out. They were chosen initially and they chose to respond. Mormaons are called out. They were chosen initially and they chose to respond.
Phat writes:
Again, feel free to SHOW any wrong turn I have made. I have challenged you multiple time to do that and you never respond. PUT UP for once.
You, on the other hand, chose to follow your own intelligence. Wrong turn. Phat writes:
Only some accept gravity. Those who don't are called idiots. Or dead, if they choose to challenge the evidence.
ringo writes:
Yet only some accept it. Everybody has the same evidence. Phat writes:
Testing is not trashing. What is not there does not need to be trashed. Others look for excuses to trash it, reject it, and explain away their free will as if they were right. Explaining is not explaining "away". What is not there does not need to be explained "away".Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: Noted. You taught me never to park my brain at the door, never be afraid of throwing something (or someone) away if they are omnipotant, and keep fighting as long as there are bullets in both of your guns. Happy New Year! Testing is not trashing. What is not there does not need to be trashed. Explaining is not explaining "away". What is not there does not need to be explained "away". The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: They are but scribes. They write what they are told (from within) to write. Perhaps you had best ditch your argument of relativity among human gods and get back tto what you know (or once knew) is true. BTW I bought us both a box of bullets. Help yourself! I have more respect for the authors, plural, than you have. YOU are the one who rejects the book. But the authors, plural, are no more "celestial" than Fred Flintstone. The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I have TRIED to teach you. You have not learned.
You taught me never to park my brain at the door... Phat writes:
I'm still waiting for you tp shoot back. ... and keep fighting as long as there are bullets in both of your guns.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
They wrote that too.
They are but scribes. They write what they are told (from within) to write. Phat writes:
I will gladly ditch any argument if you can SHOW that it is wrong.
Perhaps you had best ditch your argument of relativity among human gods... Phat writes:
What I post is what I know (to the best approximation) is true.
... get back tto what you know (or once knew) is true. Phat writes:
Then USE them. Make an argument. BTW I bought us both a box of bullets...Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9146 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3
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He thinks metaphors are arguments.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Theodoric writes:
Yes, metaphors are simple. He thinks metaphors are arguments. "The Lord is my shepherd." That was easy. A shepherd would never ask his sheep to DO anything. End of story.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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